Do you need a gun while driving in Oakland?

[fawndog]

Uh, why are you tolerating that shit? It sounds patently unsafe.

Yeah that sounds like "just a matter of time"

 

[Eldritch]

Most people should not ride motorcycles, as they lack the ability to operate them effectively and safely.

Many people should not carry guns, for much of the same logic (their inability to decide when and how to use them prudently), yet they feel we should be dumbed down to their level of unpreparedness.


fuck that noise

It's called darwinism at work, old hoss. I say folks need a little more room to kill themselves and one another in order to shift a little manners and common sense back into society. Maybe if I had kids I'd feel different and worry more about public safety, but I don't so I don't.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

.. indeed, like forwarding videos from LIKE VENEZUELA to prove a point about ... you know, USA !?!? Well, that was weird.

[BTW I bet the guy in Venezuela was super well-off for their conditions since he's driving that vehicle, so knew he was targeted. ]

I posted that video because it's literally exactly what Daks is saying could not happen and where having your own firearm would not do any good. Regardless of where it's from, are you denying it directly refutes her post? As misinformed as her post was, the gist was still "having your own gun, holstered, while in a car will do you no good vs someone who's got a gun stuffed down the front of their pants and tries to use it on you".

If you thought it was weird that it directly refutes her statement, well...your prerogative, but don't try and shit on me for it. It was not a post about comparing gun laws or anything else, merely a directly comparable situation.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

From what I understand from my gun-nut roommate, it is illegal to carry a loaded gun with a mag in it, which is what I was getting at in my first post.

Whether or not you do that is up to you. I just figured anyone fighting the good ol' gun fight with how safe and whatnot it is to have one may actually follow the law.
As someone who regularly has a gun pulled on me because I come home late or my roommate wakes up at night, hears me in my room and I don't answer him asking my name because I have headphones on, forgive me if I don't think they're for everyone or every situation.

I suppose in this case if you had a gun and loaded it and had it at the ready, then yes it would make a difference.
And come to think of it, two guys in Oakland hitting you from behind is a good reason to do that.

Yeah, fuck it, it would have worked that way.

I was going to say "would you load your gun for every accident/encounter with another person?"

But oakland

so yes.


I figured it out.

This situation with the mindset to have it at the ready, CCW is favorable.

But if two dads are getting heated at some kid's little league game and someone flashes their pistol

nope


I have encountered two types of gun people. Those who need to shoot and those who want to shoot

I live with the latter

But I have never felt safer alone in a house after he showed me where his shotgun is.


btw pringles come in a tube what the hell people

Points granted. And your roommate is correct in that it's illegal to carry a gun with a mag in it IF you do not have a LTC. However, you confused that with us talking about how a LTC could have helped in the first post, and combined with your posts in other threads led to the slight animosity here. Your roommate sounds like he's wound a bit tight. Not good, but not necessarily horrible either.

 

[tzrider]

I posted that video because it's literally exactly what Daks is saying could not happen and where having your own firearm would not do any good. Regardless of where it's from, are you denying it directly refutes her post?

It's always going to be possible to find a counter example, but on average I don't think she's wrong. There are plenty of assault scenarios where deploying your weapon won't help or where you won't even get the chance.

If you haven't read "Meditations on Violence," check it out. It doesn't really take a position on weapons or any other defensive strategy, but it adds a lot of reality to take into consideration. Its bottom line: There is no right tool for all jobs.

 

[sanjuro]

It's always going to be possible to find a counter example, but on average I don't think she's wrong. There are plenty of assault scenarios where deploying your weapon won't help or where you won't even get the chance.

If you haven't read "Meditations on Violence," check it out. It doesn't really take a position on weapons or any other defensive strategy, but it adds a lot of reality to take into consideration. Its bottom line: There is no right tool for all jobs.

"Meditations on Violence", thanks for the recommendation.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

It's always going to be possible to find a counter example, but on average I don't think she's wrong. There are plenty of assault scenarios where deploying your weapon won't help or where you won't even get the chance.

If you haven't read "Meditations on Violence," check it out. It doesn't really take a position on weapons or any other defensive strategy, but it adds a lot of reality to take into consideration. Its bottom line: There is no right tool for all jobs.

I'll check it out. I agree - there is no single right tool for all jobs. However, I don't think you should automatically discard an option that CAN work. It's been said in other threads, and I think even MrI made a similar reference in this thread - having the option to carry a gun, loaded, legally, is one of those things 99.9% of the time you never use - but the one time you need it it's there. Having it does not mean you will immediately use it as a go-to solution. Wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean you don't do everything you can to avoid a crash no?

 

[sanjuro]

I'll check it out. I agree - there is no single right tool for all jobs. However, I don't think you should automatically discard an option that CAN work. It's been said in other threads, and I think even MrI made a similar reference in this thread - having the option to carry a gun, loaded, legally, is one of those things 99.9% of the time you never use - but the one time you need it it's there. Having it does not mean you will immediately use it as a go-to solution. Wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean you don't do everything you can to avoid a crash no?

As we are going to see with the George Zimmerman trial, having a gun is not the end-all for confrontation.

I worked at a bicycle shop on the edge of the ghetto, and smart-alecky black kids would come in.

The manager, a white guy who grew up on a campus of a black college, would address the kids extremely politely. He would call them sir, which seem to throw them off, and he would ask directly what we could do for them. Inevitably, these kids would mumble "Nothing", then the manager would politely and directly ask these kids to leave. And they did.

The assistance manager, another white guy, would get confrontational with these kids, and we would have a yelling match before we kicked them out.

Both guys favored HK USP's btw, which was not necessary in these instances.

I think about Zimmerman, who was in a car, phone in hand, gun in pocket, and he handled his confrontation with Trayvon so well they were wrestling on the ground before he pulled his gun.

 

[tzrider]

Wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean you don't do everything you can to avoid a crash no?

I understand the basis of your comparison, but for me, it's a pretty worthless comparison.

There is little to no downside if everyone for miles around is wearing a seatbelt. I do think there is considerable downside if we lived in a world where everyone was carrying the means to kill one another with the twitch of a finger.

Among those who advocate CCW, one common underlying theme is they don't trust other people and want to be able to defend themselves. I don't trust other people either and for that reason don't want a large percentage of them to be armed. Yeah, criminals may be walking around strapped, but I actually worry about that less than a scenario where it's common for large numbers of everyday people to carry guns.

I think the idea that "an armed society is a polite society" is a dangerous oversimplification in today's world of road rage, drug use, high stress and any of the other factors that make people act on impulse. I absolutely do not feel safer in an environment where there are more guns. Don't mistake that for fearing guns; I fear stupidity.

CCW is best if you're the only one carrying.

 

[R1-Limited]

Way back when I was in the field doing service work I had a job that put me in the heart of Oakland. I pulled into a parking lot, walked into the establishment to ask for the manager and Telco room location. No more than 60 seconds went by and I was walking out the door to get my gear with key in hand.

I come around the corner and my trucks rear hatch is literally ripped off its hinges and was locked up. I see a guy walking across the street with my gear and a box of parts so I go after him. I suddenly realized where I was and stopped

3k worth of personal gear gone. I have never gone back and never drive through always taking the long way around. No way am I ever going into thst shit hole of a city again.

 

[fawndog]

I do think there is considerable downside if we lived in a world where everyone was carrying the means to kill one another with the twitch of a finger.

That's interesting, because driving distractions are exactly like your description.
Furthermore the OP is about a crime initiated by a vehicle, ADW maybe for intentionally hitting someone with a 3000lbs of steel ?

I come around the corner and my trucks rear hatch is literally ripped off its hinges and was locked up. I see a guy walking across the street with my gear and a box of parts so I go after him. I suddenly realized where I was and stopped

3k worth of personal gear gone. I have never gone back and never drive through always taking the long way around. No way am I ever going into thst shit hole of a city again.

That's a silly overreaction, but if it makes you feel safer, that's all that counts I guess.

 

[Chim Chim]

...
As someone who regularly has a gun pulled on me because I come home late or my roommate wakes up at night, hears me in my room and I don't answer him asking my name because I have headphones on, forgive me if I don't think they're for everyone or every situation.
...

Your post isn't clear, but if your roommate is muzzling you with a firearm; he's a complete moron who needs to be disarmed and sterilized for the good of humanity.

 

[sanjuro]

Way back when I was in the field doing service work I had a job that put me in the heart of Oakland. I pulled into a parking lot, walked into the establishment to ask for the manager and Telco room location. No more than 60 seconds went by and I was walking out the door to get my gear with key in hand.

I come around the corner and my trucks rear hatch is literally ripped off its hinges and was locked up. I see a guy walking across the street with my gear and a box of parts so I go after him. I suddenly realized where I was and stopped

3k worth of personal gear gone. I have never gone back and never drive through always taking the long way around. No way am I ever going into thst shit hole of a city again.

Not that leaving with your body intact is a bad thing, the typical reaction of anyone catching a thief is to yell "Stop Thief", giving said thief plenty of time to react.

My plan has always been to say nothing as I walk by, then strike the guy at the back of the head or in the kidney. As I continue the deserved punishment with my feet, I will then start yelling "Help me, help me!".

Assuming the police arrive within a reasonable time, I will then become a sniveling mess of a man, thanking the cops for saving me from a violent attack by a thief who I tried to chase off. It should help that I am a Asian man without face tats or Affliction t-shirts.

Also, I hear a truck serves nicely as a weapon.

 

[sanjuro]

From what I understand from my gun-nut roommate, it is illegal to carry a loaded gun with a mag in it, which is what I was getting at in my first post.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12026.2

... the firearm shall be unloaded, kept in a locked container, and the law specifies your glove compartment is NOT a locked container.

As someone who regularly has a gun pulled on me because I come home late or my roommate wakes up at night, hears me in my room and I don't answer him asking my name because I have headphones on, forgive me if I don't think they're for everyone or every situation.

I cannot emphasis how dangerous this situation is. You are making the assumption that your friend's ownership qualifies him in threat analysis.

Frankly, pointing a gun at a friend or family is the first sign you have no idea what you are doing with a gun, particularly if the incident is common, like unlocking the front door and walking in.

In comparison, rarely will a cop unholster his service weapon in course of a day, even though he is dealing with potentially violent strangers. Their extensive training helps them to evaluate threats. (btw, I noticed the cop who arrested the BART naked guy did not unholster his gun, because the naked guy complied with his orders).

I suppose in this case if you had a gun and loaded it and had it at the ready, then yes it would make a difference.
And come to think of it, two guys in Oakland hitting you from behind is a good reason to do that.

Yeah, fuck it, it would have worked that way.

I was going to say "would you load your gun for every accident/encounter with another person?"

But oakland

so yes.

I figured it out.

This situation with the mindset to have it at the ready, CCW is favorable.

There were a lot of things that could have happened. The driver could have just driven away, a crime to leave an accident but he would be still be alive.

Carrying a gun without a CCW, which is a near-certainty for Californians, could bite you in the ass. A friend got a DUI and he had a loaded pistol in the car because he works in Oakland. I do not think it is going to go well for him.

But without a gun, you have one less option.

But if two dads are getting heated at some kid's little league game and someone flashes their pistol

I have encountered two types of gun people. Those who need to shoot and those who want to shoot

I live with the latter

Many states have no laws controlling CCW, and guess what, there are some ridiculous shootings. And there are some incidences where carrying a gun saves your life.

But I think you have very limited experience with gun owners.

I own guns. I love to puncture paper targets and there are several trees which now fear me.

I have never pointed them at a person, much less someone I know. I am prepared, both mentally and regular range time, to use them in self-defense, but it is not my first option. And my relationship with you ends if you point a gun at me.

But I have never felt safer alone in a house after he showed me where his shotgun is.

Have you fired the shotgun? Do you shoot regularly? Know how to release the safety, load a round, even rack the slide?

So do you think you can use in a panic situation, like if the front door got kicked in? Or what if a friend came by unannounced?

 

[R1-Limited]

That's a silly overreaction, but if it makes you feel safer, that's all that counts I guess.

It is not just I who feels this way. Attended a SX r two back in the day, to be accosted by some punks trying to rob us

Other employees I worked with were robbed and one guy beat the shit out of putting him in the hospital, for a freaking ButtSet (Thats aTelco tool that is a telephone)

http://www.trulia.com/crime/Oakland,CA/

 

[morthrane]

You mean, you're not going after them, not going to show then what a badass you are, and you aren't going to save the whole neighborhood? That's completely the opposite of a lot of guys on here. Those gangbangers are damned lucky the BARF badasses aren't in their neighborhood.

Jeez, you're such a badass in the kitchen sink...

Jeez why are folks locked in on the fact I mentioned the white guys in my area?

Probably because they understand-- either empirically or philosophically-- that thuggery is color blind and not entirely correlated with socioeconomic class.

Long story short don't look like a goddamn victim, step your situational awareness up, and keep your goddamn beak closed if you can't back up being a tough guy without a piece. Works for me.

As Eldritch noted, this just doesn't work for everyone. It won't work for the vast majority of elderly folks, for example. Most of them just can't act tough; it would be laughable and attract vile attention.

A firearm does not confer badassery, but reading between the lines, I get the impression that you believe this falsehood.

Among those who advocate CCW, one common underlying theme is they don't trust other people and want to be able to defend themselves. I don't trust other people either and for that reason don't want a large percentage of them to be armed. Yeah, criminals may be walking around strapped, but I actually worry about that less than a scenario where it's common for large numbers of everyday people to carry guns.

And yet, the untrustworthy people you fear are the very ones who would have a firearm and be emboldened by the knowledge that everyone else is unarmed... instead of knowing that some of them may indeed be armed.

Part of freedom is allowing people you don't know, like, or trust to have the same rights.

I think the idea that "an armed society is a polite society" is a dangerous oversimplification in today's world of road rage, drug use, high stress and any of the other factors that make people act on impulse. I absolutely do not feel safer in an environment where there are more guns. Don't mistake that for fearing guns; I fear stupidity.

Sure sounds like you fear guns, as stupidity knows no limits, and crazy likes targets that can't fight back.

 

[B-Cuz]

As someone who regularly has a gun pulled on me because I come home late or my roommate wakes up at night, hears me in my room and I don't answer him asking my name because I have headphones on, forgive me if I don't think they're for everyone or every situation.
...
I have encountered two types of gun people. Those who need to shoot and those who want to shoot

I live with the latter

That's the dumbest shit I've ever read on BARF.

 

[Zerox]

Lately I'm wandering Oakland past midnight, alone. Make eye contact, control your zone, you'll be fine. Peeps just trying to get by, it's not a battlefield.

 

[nbean16]

Lately I'm wandering Oakland past midnight, alone. Make eye contact, control your zone, you'll be fine. Peeps just trying to get by, it's not a battlefield.

That's the dumbest shit I've ever read on BARF.

Agreed.










Just control your zone...hahahaha

 

[Asphaultnaut]

make eye contact, you've issued a "challenge". Renton Highlands, 11pm 1996-ish

Only thing that's worked is reaching for the back of your belt while nodding.

moved into a place that had 5 year old kids dressed identical to their momma's men. sagging pants, undecipherable lingo except for a barrage of "fukkin'"s coming from a kid who' was barely old enough to start attending school and should be singing alphabet songs from Sesame Street.

and an axe mark to the steel lined building access door.

Got my CCW started the next week, and an American import Makarov for carry.