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Dodge to discontinue Charger and Challenger

SM610 said:
All the low end jeeps and all the ram vans are fiats...and probably a pain in the ass for all the techs. On the other hand i think fiat was smart to buy dodge/ram, as it was a currently standing american dealership network/parts network to walk right into.
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Absolutely a smart move for them. Chrysler got sold off by Mercedes for pennies on the dollar to Cerebus, which really devalued them into a hole they’ve never been able to come out of. When Cerebus couldn’t really get anything out of them, Fiat managed to pick them up at that still discounted price. Get a huge dealer network in America for minimal investment? Sure!

Meanwhile, Fiat nameplate on their own has been struggling to get a foothold here in America with that little shitbox 500. Was trendy for a bit, but otherwise not too well received. The “Fiata” is another failed attempt since why wouldn’t you just buy…you know…a Miata, if you want to buy that kind of vehicle. So Fiat will take the end around and get into America by just slowly phasing out all original Chrysler product and selling everything they have…just wearing Jeep badges and so on, but it’s all FCA under the skin. And now that they’re Stellantis, I’m sure we’ll be seeing some Peugeot (even worse) stuff on sale here perhaps wearing Chrysler badges or whatever.

If you’re a “Mopar or no car” enthusiast, better pick up a Charger (which isn’t even all Chrysler, it has some older Mercedes platform underpinnings and FCA’s infotainment setup) with a big ol’ Hemi V8 while you can.
 
I saw the ports of a hemi engine vs normal engines. Wow, they are huge in comparison!
 
Climber said:
This may be the driver of this decision...

"But tighter emissions standards forced the automaker to reimagine its lineup and buy carbon credits from cleaner manufacturers. Stellantis, previously known as Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, said in a March 2021 earnings call that it spent $362 million on such credits in 2020, mostly from electric-car maker Tesla, according to CNBC. European energy regulations allow companies that struggle to meet emissions benchmarks to buy carbon credits."
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Its funny how EVs and hybrids were considered too risky by legacy auto and they would rather pay a competitor to make EVs for them. That gamble did not work out so well for them.


The new "not a veggie burger" EV looks awsome. Aerodynamics may be meh, but it looks good which is what sells cars.
 
Killroy1999 said:
Its funny how EVs and hybrids were considered too risky by legacy auto and they would rather pay a competitor to make EVs for them. That gamble did not work out so well for them.


The new "not a veggie burger" EV looks awsome. Aerodynamics may be meh, but it looks good which is what sells cars.
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I actually do kinda like the Hornet. Seems to be in line with the completion in Michigan are doing, the Mustang Mach-E and upcoming Blazer EV. Also leveraging well known model names into something…different.

Honda was actually smart to partner with GM for their first couple of EVs. Share the R&D costs (though I think GM footed most of the bill for the Ultium platform). Yeah it means they’re late to the party. But by hanging back a bit they got to see what the trend is, what the consumers actually really want versus what Tesla thinks they want, and let Tesla step on their own dick a bunch by making promises they can’t keep and having horrific quality control.

Mercedes just tried to charge through the breach with the EQS, and that thing looks like it’s going to be a colossal fail. So sometimes hanging back and letting someone else catch the bullet is the right move.
 
Iirc, that Mercedes platform goes back to mid-90's. Where's "Eisenkruz/Webber-style" to tell us about MB design superiority when we need him! :laughing
 
Johndicezx9 said:
Iirc, that Mercedes platform goes back to mid-90's. Where's "Eisenkruz/Webber-style" to tell us about MB design superiority when we need him! :laughing
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Miran, was it? One of the posters of the past I miss reading.

Sometimes fails, sometimes gets everyone else to follow suit, M-B has never been shy about pushing new tech.

When they gave Chrysler those parts for the Charger (and then Magnum and 300), it was already a generation old from from M-B was currently producing. All new Aston Martins use Mercedes electrical architecture…just a generation older than what Mercedes uses now. And it shows…god damn the infotainment in all the new Astons is complete trash.

Basically, if you don’t business with Benz, you get treated like a stepchild.
 
Johndicezx9 said:
Yes, Miran!

Isn't the new Vantage V-12 using the AMG motor?
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Nope. Aston’s latest 5.2L twin turbo V12 is still sort of their own engine. It’s a derivative of the old N/A 6 liter V12 than Ford and Cosworth made for them like 20 years ago. Many people think it was just two Ford Duratec V6s mashed together. And it kind of is. But there’s a lot of dedicated stuff to Aston in that engine beyond just the cylinder count.

Now if you get a Vantage V8 or DB11 V8 (much better choice than the V12 I might add), then yes you get the Mercedes AMG M177 4.0L twin turbo V8 that seems to reside under the hood of many Mercedes models.
 
I've seen more than a few EQS models here in the Lamorinda area, but they don't seem generally well received. I'm hoping they are more successful with the EQXX based vehicles, whenever that range is introduced.
 
TheRobSJ said:
I actually do kinda like the Hornet. Seems to be in line with the completion in Michigan are doing, the Mustang Mach-E and upcoming Blazer EV. Also leveraging well known model names into something…different.

Honda was actually smart to partner with GM for their first couple of EVs. Share the R&D costs (though I think GM footed most of the bill for the Ultium platform). Yeah it means they’re late to the party. But by hanging back a bit they got to see what the trend is, what the consumers actually really want versus what Tesla thinks they want, and let Tesla step on their own dick a bunch by making promises they can’t keep and having horrific quality control.

Mercedes just tried to charge through the breach with the EQS, and that thing looks like it’s going to be a colossal fail. So sometimes hanging back and letting someone else catch the bullet is the right move.
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Hindsight is 20/20

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We do see a lot of quality problems in the industry:

-Ford MachE - Stop sale order due to saftey issue. Bricked and dealers did not know how to fix them yet.
-Prosche Taycan _"In addition, the 2021 model already has eight safety recalls. They include problems with the suspension, brakes, hazard lights, and seat belts"
-BMW i3 - saftey recall that had sales stopped for a long time
-VW ID EV - software issues delayed launches
- GM Bold - let's just not discuss the Bolt.

I wonder what a good measure of qualit is these days. JDPower's "Initial Quality Survey" has been debunked and Consumer Report has me causious also.
 
Challengers (particularly) and Chargers are a fucking dime a dozen here. I've been listening to half of our drivers who own them piss and moan for months about this shit and consistently blame it on on politicians. :rolleyes
 
Killroy1999 said:
We do see a lot of quality problems in the industry:

-Ford MachE - Stop sale order due to saftey issue. Bricked and dealers did not know how to fix them yet.
-Prosche Taycan _"In addition, the 2021 model already has eight safety recalls. They include problems with the suspension, brakes, hazard lights, and seat belts"
-BMW i3 - saftey recall that had sales stopped for a long time
-VW ID EV - software issues delayed launches
- GM Bold - let's just not discuss the Bolt.

I wonder what a good measure of qualit is these days. JDPower's "Initial Quality Survey" has been debunked and Consumer Report has me causious also.
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Everyone is having tech issues. That’s nothing new. What I’m specifically shitting on Tesla for is just how poorly they seem to screw those things together. Great tech, just in a kind of crappy car. There seems to be a new scope of measurement in the industry…used by even the customers now. Good…for a Tesla or It’s “Tesla good” but still not like a Mercedes or something like that and the fact that phrases like that exist is pretty telling about their quality.

Someone can come in here and argue all they want with their anecdotal evidence of how their Model 3 is totally fine, the paint is glass smooth, and all the panel fits and gaps are perfect. But I kinda do see just a wee bit more of a sample size than most people. Dare I say it…but the dreaded Charger this thread is about has better quality than the typical Tesla.
 
Apparently the internet had a image of a Tesla repaired or produced with duck tape in it. , just last week.
 
TheRobSJ said:
Everyone is having tech issues. That’s nothing new. What I’m specifically shitting on Tesla for is just how poorly they seem to screw those things together. Great tech, just in a kind of crappy car. There seems to be a new scope of measurement in the industry…used by even the customers now. Good…for a Tesla or It’s “Tesla good” but still not like a Mercedes or something like that and the fact that phrases like that exist is pretty telling about their quality.

Someone can come in here and argue all they want with their anecdotal evidence of how their Model 3 is totally fine, the paint is glass smooth, and all the panel fits and gaps are perfect. But I kinda do see just a wee bit more of a sample size than most people. Dare I say it…but the dreaded Charger this thread is about has better quality than the typical Tesla.
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To further this. Tesla is having a lot of recall issues too: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/pretty-much-every-tesla-on-the-road-is-now-under-recall/

Of course, there is good chance of a bigger action coming due to the dangerous, misleading trash heap that is Autopilot and "Full Self Driving"

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/10/23299973/ralph-nader-tesla-fsd-recall-nhtsa-autopilot-crash

Last week, California’s DMV accused Tesla of falsely advertising its Autopilot and FSD features, alleging that the company made “untrue or misleading” claims about its vehicles’ autonomous driving capabilities. The DMV’s action could result in the suspension of Tesla’s licenses to produce and sell cars in California, but the agency may not go that far.
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Kestrel said:
Dodge said years ago that they were discontinuing these - it is a planned event. They're moving the focus toward electric powertrains and you had better believe they're going to do some sort of stupid electric fucking Roadrunner or something.
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Probably and electric Daytona or Superbird.:teeth
 
I still firmly believe Tesla is a tech company that also builds cars.
 
Abacinator said:
I still firmly believe Tesla is a tech company that also builds cars.
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A lot of industry journalists and experts have said that very same thing. Great tech company, bad car company.
 
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