Dumb-assed change to schools, they must start later in the morning.

[mikev]

Life is hard. What I see in this post is a teacher who refuses to acknowledge that. I’ll give you an example.

Today, I got out of bed at 4:45AM in Agusta Georgia. I got to Agusta last night at about 6PM, after awaking at (goes back to schedule because can’t remember) 5AM in Rochester, NY. I’ve had 3 12 hour days in a row, with less than 12 hours to rest. Every overnight save for the last one has moved farther east, and started earlier. I’m finally headed home. No one has decided to revise my sleep schedule, my work schedule, or told me “you’ll do better if you get more sleep.” Why? Because I’m an adult. I know life is hard. I also had parents who said “it’s 9 o’clock, GO TO BED!” “and “NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING!”

I’ve been in this industry for nearly 20 years now. I’ve seen it change. I’ve seen it go from people who know that life is hard to people refusing to accept that. I’ve seen it go from everyone pulling their weight, knowing that their time is coming to people thinking it’s owed to them. I blame changes like this, and teachers like you for that. I see things getting “better” in the short term, and much worse in the long. I see people thinking and trying to make a meaningful impact only doing the opposite.

My house? “This isn’t a democracy. It’s a dictatorship. When you help pay the bills, go to bed without being told to, figure out how to make that dinner you just ate, and show me some responsibility, then the dictatorship will be over. Until then, my house, my rules. If you want to call CPS because of that, here, it’s ringing. I hope you enjoy foster care.”

If that makes me one of those aggressive parents you hate, good. What school do you work at so I know not to send my kids there? My job is to raise respectful kids who know how to find their place in society. You’re job is to teach them math, science, history, etc. Stay in your lane! I’m not upset if you don’t like that, but I will be if you think your job is to be their parent.

The fallacy that “kids will do better if we start school later” is preposterous. They’ll just go to bed later. There’s only so much time in the day, and most of it is already spoken for. You should know that by now, you’ve been adulting for long enough. It’s also ridiculous to equate drug and alcohol abuse to school start times. Many parents simply can’t drop kids off later than they already do. So they won’t. That will leave more kids the opportunity to be unsupervised. “But there will be staff on campus.” Great, provided that they actually go to campus.

Seems to me like they made this decision with a 10 foot view, not a 100ft one.

I HAD IT TOUGH SO GODDAMMIT SO SHOULD EVERYBODY ELSE

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

You kidding me. My work schedule is one of the best there is. I show up, work hard for three or four days, and go home for four or five. I average 16 days off a month. I love my job. What makes me angry is this state doing stupid shit like this, making things better for 5-10% of people, and harder for 50-60% of everyone else because they, once again, shot from the hip.

Have you considered that this makes it better for 100% of the middle and high schoolers ?
(Except those with a job so inflexible, that they insist on hiring highscoolers but can’t accept a 1/2 hr change)

That’s exactly the point, apparently

 

[byke]

Life is hard and you sissies need to deal with change, plus this change is outrageous and makes me angry.

Also, your thoughts and opinions mean nothing until you have money.

So, we're teaching kids that philosophical inconsistency is fine as long as all situations suit me(yayyyyy4meeeeeeee!!!) and money = merit. Good thing those two issues aren't already the biggest contributors to just about every problem we have in the entire world. That's what we need, more people like that.

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

Life is hard and you sissies need to deal with change, plus this change is outrageous and makes me angry.

Also, your thoughts and opinions mean nothing until you have money.

So, we're teaching kids that philosophical inconsistency is fine as long as all situations suit me(yayyyyy4meeeeeeee!!!) and money = merit. Good thing those two issues aren't already the biggest contributors to just about every problem we have in the entire world. That's what we need, more people like that.

Both correct and funny.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

What type of drugs and alcohol are we talking about here? Are we sure it's a negative?

 

[DucatiHoney]

You just proved my point, you have no clue whatsoever.

You will never know what it's like to be a parent, unless you've been one, just as guys will never know what it's like to be pregnant and give birth.

Probably not a great thing to say to someone. You don't know why people who aren't parents, well, aren't parents. Maybe they can't have kids, gave one up for adoption, or lost a kid after being a parent for a while. I've found this out the hard way with a neighbor several years back, and I still feel like an a-hole for saying something so incredibly insensitive and ignorant. They were beyond gracious about my faux pas, but they could have let me have it and had every right to.

That and your statement doesn't really apply here. School start time isn't something that affects parents only. I live by a few schools and apparently if one has reproduced, that gives them license to double-park for however long they feel is necessary to drop off the crotch-fruit at their place of learning. The rest of people using the roads can just deal, apparently. Now at least I know that the breeders are going to be doing their brain-dead driving tactics an hour later.

 

[ScarySpikes]

Have you considered that this makes it better for 100% of the middle and high schoolers ?
(Except those with a job so inflexible, that they insist on hiring highscoolers but can’t accept a 1/2 hr change)

That’s exactly the point, apparently

I'd argue it's still good for the kid with the sucky job. It teaches the lesson that their workplace does not care about them, will not treat them reasonably, and that they need to demand good treatment and shop around for something better if they don't get it.


The other thing that baffles me is the idea that no jobs are going to accommodate for the schools schedule. Bosses and managers have kids too. Many of the other workers have kids too.

 

[byke]

Probably not a great thing to say to someone. You don't know why people who aren't parents, well, aren't parents. Maybe they can't have kids, gave one up for adoption, or lost a kid after being a parent for a while. I've found this out the hard way with a neighbor several years back, and I still feel like an a-hole for saying something so incredibly insensitive and ignorant. They were beyond gracious about my faux pas, but they could have let me have it and had every right to.

That and your statement doesn't really apply here. School start time isn't something that affects parents only. I live by a few schools and apparently if one has reproduced, that gives them license to double-park for however long they feel is necessary to drop off the crotch-fruit at their place of learning. The rest of people using the roads can just deal, apparently. Now at least I know that the breeders are going to be doing their brain-dead driving tactics an hour later.

Shush you. Unless you've engaged in the elite skill of procreation, then you just shush it.

Also, all your wombs are belong to us. :eggplant4vr

 

[nakedape]

I don't remember many days in high school where my responsibilities actually impacted when I went to bed. I was up because there were friends or cute girls to interact with online. I doubt the current generation is much different on average. And every morning, I got out of bed at the last possible second to not be late - even though my parents claimed I needed to be up earlier.

But hey, anecdotes. I'm sure the professionals that actually study this know A LOT better than the tiny sample size in this thread.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. What do you (BARF) want to know?

Later start times don't benefit everyone, but they benefit most UNDER-resourced kids. They slightly delay the participation of club sports kids.

When we align the start time of school to the factory model we are for sure doing a disservice to the students. Many kids sleeping in my class cross socio-economic lines. That says to me ALL kids are impacted by early (7:25AM) start negatively.

Whatever you got away with, they are getting away with more and more. It's a real battle. We respond to EVERYTHING well-founded or not. It ends up being a lot of false negatives.

Schools are what the police want to be but aren't. Reduced rights, speech limits..."reasonable suspicion" vs, probable cause...

 

[mlm]

...apparently if one has reproduced, that gives them license to double-park for however long they feel is necessary to drop off the crotch-fruit at their place of learning.

Tell us how you REALLY feel

 

[Eldritch]

I HAD IT TOUGH SO GODDAMMIT SO SHOULD EVERYBODY ELSE

I mean, when I say I did it, I am not saying i had it tough, I am saying it taught me personal responsibility and self sustaining independence, which are important core foundations of a free society.

 

[Brokenlink]

I've been wanting to engage on this thread because it's interesting and I have something to say. But I'm about as diplomatic as gay Hells Angel on PCP and quite frankly, I try to keep cool these days on the old BARF. So here goes folks. Hold on, I'll try and be somewhat P fucking C.

I have had insomnia my entire life. Started about 12. 1 and 2nd period always seemed to be the more important classes for me (history, english, etc) and I slept through most of them. Now, I'm pretty smart so I still managed. In fact, I remember one specific instance in 11th grade where I was sleeping in my usual spot and the teacher starts yelling at the class that we all did horribly on our latest book report and most people got D's or F's and she's super disappointed. "Except for one" and then proceeds to read my paper out loud.

That said, I struggled immensely in those early classes. By third period I was fine and in focus. And you may think I stayed up all night playing video games, but I didn't. I was in bed usually by 10. Then awake off and on all night. I removed my alarm clock when I was 13 because I woke up every night at 2:14 AM, looked the clock and thought "Yup, it's 2:14 AM". That later start time would have been really helpful for me, as those early hours were truly the most productive. And I imagine I am not alone.

If I recall, that was the whole point of the study. It's not the amount of time you sleep. It's the time you sleep. And for teenagers, early morning is the most productive sleep. So maybe stop thinking about yourself and think about your kids. I rarely sleep more than 6 hours a night now because adults don't need as much. Think about your fucking kids, not yourself.

 

[mean dad]

No Mike, a middle aged pilot wakes up early to support his financial responsibilities by going to the job he willingly chose; so some random ten year old girl in Des Moines needs to do the same.

 

[Climber]

So if morning sleep is so important, what is DSL doing still around?
Seems like it would put lack of sleep on steroids.

I've been an insomniac since I can remember, my earliest memories are being the only one awake in the house and hearing the wolves snuffing around outside my window (150 miles north of the border in Manitoba on the edge of a small town). I'm definitely not a morning person and slept in until the very last minute for college, took a shower in 5 minutes, ate in 5 minutes and ran to my first class in 5 minutes...woke up 15 minutes before class.

But I do see the havoc this will play with parents, especially if they are already barely making ends meet and they work for an asshole boss.

 

[Brokenlink]

So if morning sleep is so important, what is DSL doing still around?
Seems like it would put lack of sleep on steroids.

I've been an insomniac since I can remember, my earliest memories are being the only one awake in the house and hearing the wolves snuffing around outside my window (150 miles north of the border in Manitoba on the edge of a small town). I'm definitely not a morning person and slept in until the very last minute for college, took a shower in 5 minutes, ate in 5 minutes and ran to my first class in 5 minutes...woke up 15 minutes before class.

But I do see the havoc this will play with parents, especially if they are already barely making ends meet and they work for an asshole boss.

Well as someone who should understand what that extra half hour of sleep in the morning would do for a teenager's mental well being and ability to learn effectively, you seem completely out of touch with it. Here we have a policy change based on science (I know, that pesky science is all fake and whatnot) that is designed to benefit children. And the only thing I am seeing here is "Yeah but this is going to make MY life harder". I'll say it again, think of the children.

 

[Climber]

Well as someone who should understand what that extra half hour of sleep in the morning would do for a teenager's mental well being and ability to learn effectively, you seem completely out of touch with it. Here we have a policy change based on science (I know, that pesky science is all fake and whatnot) that is designed to benefit children. And the only thing I am seeing here is "Yeah but this is going to make MY life harder". I'll say it again, think of the children.

That's a very simplistic perspect. 'But the Children!!!'

There is a lot more to the equation than just one aspect and if the childrens parents have their life fucked up with this change, what do you suppose would be the impact of becoming homeless? Or how about less food available?

Raising kids is a lot of work, with many sacrifices. Just like the people who want a 10 year old girl who got pregnant from rape to not get an abortion, some seem to think that what's best for the kids should not take into consideration what impact that will have on the parents.

 

[mean dad]

Holy shit. Dude really just said that this change would make people homeless.

 

[gnahc79]

Climber, this change will be disruptive for a few years initially. How disruptive, it depends and is up for debate. Once this change normalizes, this whole start time issue will be a non-issue.

 

[Climber]

Have you raised kids?
Do you know people who are living paycheck to paycheck? Some of those people don't have much say in their jobs.

You're just looking for fault, as usual, ridiculing is not an admirable way of interacting with others, there is a certain kind of person who resorts to that.

 

[Climber]

Climber, this change will be disruptive for a few years initially. How disruptive, it depends and is up for debate. Once this change normalizes, this whole start time issue will be a non-issue.

It may be. It really comes down to how the employers respond and if the government will help out, which I haven't heard of (I guess they're following the Thou Shalt approach, so there is no reason to provide additional funds for the kids whose parents don't have the flexibility).