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Electrician help - Unbiased opinion on changing circuit breaker panel.

I figured it might be less expensive to put in a panel that’s rated for 400 amps now but leave the existing service he now has from the pole. That way he gets a panel that won’t burn his house down now and if he wants to upgrade his service to 200 or more later, he would already have the panel for it. It’s just metal and breakers.
 
Mr @Dubbington, I'm sorry about this.
If you want any input from a journeyman / licensed electrician feel free to message me.
 
So, your telling me that the panel must match the service and that you can’t plan ahead as I suggested?

Telling me that would be much better than telling me to “just stop”. Explanations serve to inform and educate.
 
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auntiebling said:
The cost of upgrading the drop from the utility is their time, schedule with your contractor, and downtime of your household routine. The differential cost of the 200 vs 400 amp panel and the copper cable to feed it is pretty minor
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There is no cost to upgrade the utility drop from PG&E... they will increase the wire size as they deem necessary. As long as you've pulled a permit and scheduled disconnect/reconnect with them, they will provide the proper sized service drop to whatever panel you install. From the pole to the weather head is their responsibility.
 
My understanding is that you can’t force any more current into a system than what it draws. You could hook up a 400 amp service to a 100 amp panel and you’d only be able to get 100 amps out of the panel. It’s like using a truck battery to power a transistor radio. You’ll only draw as much current as the radio draws and no more. Therefore, hooking up a 400 amp panel to a 100 amp service will only get you what the 100 amp service can provide, as long as the panel is only configured for 100 amps, though it has the possibility of providing 400 amps if more breakers are installed.

But I understand that laws say you can’t do that. Even though it would work fine from an electrical point of view.
 
PG&E's service to my house is buried cable rated at 125 amps. Not in conduit, buried. Increasing the service to 200 amps involved digging a trench through our hardscape, trees and landscaping as well as across the street to the buried transformer. It was cost prohibited.

I replaced the 100 amp zinsco panel with a 200 amp panel. I put the 200 amp main breaker in storage and installed a 125 amp main breaker. The city and PG&E approved.

I have also found that as the house switched over from incandescent to LED the overall demand decreased. I have a 4.5kw hot tub, 5 ton heat pump electric dryer and oven. Max amp draw in that configuration over a year, using PG&E data, was in the mid 60's telling me that I have room for a car charger and hybrid heat pump water heater in the future. 20 years ago, with incandescent bulbs and no hot tub, I saw a higher max after I installed a 4 ton AC system. Since my garage is too small for any real shop loads (no room to store stuff) I don't think there will be a need for more than the 125 amps.

Flip
 
Rtmac said:
There is no cost to upgrade the utility drop from PG&E... they will increase the wire size as they deem necessary. As long as you've pulled a permit and scheduled disconnect/reconnect with them, they will provide the proper sized service drop to whatever panel you install. From the pole to the weather head is their responsibility.
Click to expand...
thats nice. i have silicon valley power there was a slight upcharge depending on what size cable they needed to use to feed the panel. for what pg+e charges for electricity it's nice they include some things "free" :laughing
 
FYI, dimmers are great, not only for saving electricity, but also for creating different moods in your home. Every light in my home can be dimmed.
 
Rtmac said:
Another thing to consider... It's perfectly legal to gut that panel out and make a blank cover for it (making it a big junction box) then extend the existing circuits into a new main panel.
If that panel is on an exterior wall and the meter is somewhere on the other side of that wall, it would be very easy.
Click to expand...
This an example of surfaced mounted replacement panel installation.
The new location on the side of the house allowed a quick cutover once everything inspected in phases.
The existing wiring (1952 vintage) is being replaced as needed with all new wiring in various areas kitchen, bath, washer dryer, stove etc…
There is a new sub panel in the house that is connected with the large MC cable in the in wall picture.
All done by a licensed electrical contractor who knows how to deal with PG&E my understanding is they’re not the easiest customer when it comes to scheduling inspections and making sure everything goes smooth. It helps to have a knowledgeable person deal with PG&E simple.
The location of the abandoned panel was shown with that junction box with the lots of wires in it. It’s also fed from the new surface mail and panel. I just didn’t get a picture of the sub panel. It’s fed with a large MC under the house and then up the wall to the new sub panel inside the house.Maybe I can add that later.
See the abandoned location of the meter in the front of the house and the drop on the roof. Moving it to the side, allow me to clean up all the cabling, wires and stuff that was run for telephone and cable. Plus, we got it way better grounded than it ever was because it just wasn’t quite there in the old installation.
anyways, this is what it looks like lots of work.
PaulR
 

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How about this one? It lives outside on the utility pole with the transformer above.

1786415057629.jpeg
 
So, could a 200 amp panel be installed (with a 200 amp feed) and the panel be equipped with breakers of the same ratings as what he has now? Then, later, if more circuits are wanted, additional breakers could simply be installed?

FYI, I’m trying to understand.
 
The original meter socket was directly under where the mast penetrates the roof. I moved the new 200 amp meter/main over to locate it behind the original 100 amp panel inside the garage (and to get the required clearance from the gas meter), and then put a large wire chase between the two panels.
I used the old panel (not a stab-lok) as a 50 amp sub-panel for the lighting circuits and a few outlets, and moved everything else into the new panel. I added a generator connection with a main breaker interlock, and a weatherproof utility outlet.
1418.jpg

Fyi, I have worked with PG&E on many residential and commercial jobs and have always found them to be very easy to deal with (as long as you have your shit together... they aren't gonna wait around on you.) They will disconnect power at the weatherhead in the morning, then come back and reconnect it in the afternoon.
I've had a few times when, for whatever reason, I wasn't ready when they came back, so they just reschedule for the next day (I have actually gone ahead and reconnected it for the night myself and then disconnected the next morning before they got there... but I certainly wouldn't want to let them catch me doing that.)
 
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ST Guy said:
Well, I’m self trained with all its limitations.
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Self-trained electrician A.K.A not an electrician... and should never, ever offer advice to anyone.
ST Guy said:
But I understand that laws say you can’t do that. Even though it would work fine from an electrical point of view.
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Tweakers do shit all the time that "works fine from an electrical point of view"... until someone gets electrocuted or burns down a house.

Fyi, I completed my apprenticeship and became a journeyman electrician in 1988, I got my C10 electrical contractor's license in 1992. I have always been very proud of my trade, and I take being an electrician very seriously (since mistakes can be deadly.) Please accept my apology if I don't have much patience for entertaining silly questions and comments.
 
Rtmac said:
There is no cost to upgrade the utility drop from PG&E... they will increase the wire size as they deem necessary. As long as you've pulled a permit and scheduled disconnect/reconnect with them, they will provide the proper sized service drop to whatever panel you install. From the pole to the weather head is their responsibility.
Click to expand...
You sure about the no cost? I dont have 200a to the main outside panel. They'll need to trench to the curb, about 20-25ft. I was told and on PGE site that it can be up to $4500 to trench. To my knowledge PGE doesn't do that for free. I'll find out. My request is in and it can takes 30-60 days. I dont NEED 200a now but once we add a pool and hottub, I can see that being a good upgrade, plus it future proofs the home and labor and parts are only going to get more costly.
 
Rtmac said:
The original meter socket was directly under where the mast penetrates the roof. I moved the new 200 amp meter/main over to locate it behind the original 100 amp panel inside the garage (and to get the required clearance from the gas meter), and then put a large wire chase between the two panels.
I used the old panel (not a stab-lok) as a 50 amp sub-panel for the lighting circuits and a few outlets, and moved everything else into the new panel. I added a generator connection with a main breaker interlock, and a weatherproof utility outlet.
View attachment 599709

Fyi, I have worked with PG&E on many residential and commercial jobs and have always found them to be very easy to deal with (as long as you have your shit together... they aren't gonna wait around on you.) They will disconnect power at the weatherhead in the morning, then come back and reconnect it in the afternoon.
I've had a few times when, for whatever reason, I wasn't ready when they came back, so they just reschedule for the next day (I have actually gone ahead and reconnected it for the night myself and then disconnected the next morning before they got there... but I certainly wouldn't want to let them catch me doing that.)
Click to expand...
If you’re unqualified, untrained, or just “pretty sure you saw a guy do this on YouTube,” you have no business doing electrical work or providing advice.
This isn’t painting a fence or installing a towel bar.
Electricity doesn’t care about your confidence, your weekend‑warrior attitude, or your bargain‑bin tools.
It will kill you, burn your house down, or leave someone else cleaning up your mess.
Respect the trades….
Simple….
PaulR
 
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