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First time riding with a newbie and he went down

If they are fixating on you making it around the corner then that's a good thing.:rofl when a rider fixates on something it means they end up with their bike where they were looking. Fixating On the fog line or a crashing bike= bad. Fixating on a bikes perfect line while flowing effortlessly from corner to corner=good.
 
In my limited experience with new riders I have found that they often seem overwhelmed in the twisties. They are thinking about entry speed, lines, braking, gear selection, body position, safe cornering speed, etc etc. Towing they in removes half of those variables (especially is you set your speed super early and coast into the corners). Once the number of variables is reduced it is amazing to see how fast the learning happens.

Following newbies is terrifying, you get to see everything that could go wrong with no way to impact the outcome. It's a bit like watching a horror movie.
 
What does "Ride your own pace" mean to a new rider?

Most new riders think that they are/were riding their own pace right up until the impact. I suggest that the termride your own pace, is hollow and holds no applicable meaning to new riders.

Are there other ways/words that can be used to communicate more effectively?

I like to tell them to ride slower than they think they should, because we can always go a little faster once we're through the corner much more easily than we can try to slow down in the middle of the corner.

And good job on locating and booting Scout... good riddance to bad garbage... :thumbup

The most important reason for towing a noob rather than following a noob is controling the #1 reason for noob bails...their speed in any given corner. If you are towing a noob you can proceed into a corner at a speed that you are 90% sure they will be able to handle while showing them the proper line. While you might be yawning and singing in your helmet, they might be deathgripping at this speed. When you are behind a noob observing their technique you are helpless as you observe them misjudge a corner and bin it.

This.

In my limited experience with new riders I have found that they often seem overwhelmed in the twisties. They are thinking about entry speed, lines, braking, gear selection, body position, safe cornering speed, etc etc. Towing they in removes half of those variables (especially is you set your speed super early and coast into the corners). Once the number of variables is reduced it is amazing to see how fast the learning happens.

Following newbies is terrifying, you get to see everything that could go wrong with no way to impact the outcome. It's a bit like watching a horror movie.

Also this.

this just in: motorcycles are dangerous.

:banana Ain't it grand??? :teeth
 
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I wasn't offering to tow or teach him how to ride haha, I offered to show him a new road and he went down before we even got to it.
 
Like someone said earlier, the blind leading the blind. You both have fast bikes but with little skill & seat time experience, yet you both want to rail twisties. Might be a short riding career for both of you with that type of mentality. I sometimes wonder...is there something about being a newbie that's so embarrassing that you gotta try to prove you got skills in the twisties? Is there something about being a newbie that means you won't get respect as a rider? Just sayin. When I was learning to ride I always maintained the f*k y'all attitude. Meaning, I let people know I was a newbie up front and won't be railing like the rest, so if that upsets you and you want to leave me the dust...f*k y'all! To me, that was way better than trying keep up with faster riders and run the risk of having a busted up bike or worst, serious injuries. But that's just me though.
 
I wasn't offering to tow or teach him how to ride haha, I offered to show him a new road and he went down before we even got to it.

My suggestion would be, in the future, don't offer to "show" an inexperienced rider anything. Unfortunately, if you even remotely look like you know what you're doing, they're going to defer to your "expertise"... and many of them will assume that you're going to make it easy on them to follow you, since they told you they were new, had crashed already, etc... :2cents
 
Like someone said earlier, the blind leading the blind. You both have fast bikes but with little skill & seat time experience, yet you both want to rail twisties. Might be a short riding career for both of you with that type of mentality. I sometimes wonder...is there something about being a newbie that's so embarrassing that you gotta try to prove you got skills in the twisties? Is there something about being a newbie that means you won't get respect as a rider? Just sayin. When I was learning to ride I always maintained the f*k y'all attitude. Meaning, I let people know I was a newbie up front and won't be railing like the rest, so if that upsets you and you want to leave me the dust...f*k y'all! To me, that was way better than trying keep up with faster riders and run the risk of having a busted up bike or worst, serious injuries. But that's just me though.

when I ride I go at my own pace, I feel comfortable in the twisties and I feel I know how to ride my bike better than the avg. newbie (aka this guy).

Just because I ride a little faster doesn't mean I am going to crash? I stay in my lane and I leave a big enough cushion for say, a car coming around the corner in my lane, a pinecone in my lane, or say some dirt/gravel in the road?

I'm not dragging knee on the street relax dude.

My suggestion would be, in the future, don't offer to "show" an inexperienced rider anything. Unfortunately, if you even remotely look like you know what you're doing, they're going to defer to your "expertise"... and many of them will assume that you're going to make it easy on them to follow you, since they told you they were new, had crashed already, etc... :2cents

I thought I found another riding buddy, just because he is new you suggest I don't ride with him? When I was new I learned all the roads that I could, if my friends wanted to go faster I didn't mind it. I kept riding at my own pace and rode on these roads on my own till I am at the point where I am at now. I see and know the difference of my first month of riding to the way I am riding now.

I don't try to teach anyone to ride, I just offer to give them someone to ride with and come along with them. If they can't ride their own ride that's not my problem.
 
I don't try to teach anyone to ride, I just offer to give them someone to ride with and come along with them. If they can't ride their own ride that's not my problem.

You may come to see this differently over time.

I should say that I don't think your choice to ride with this guy was inappropriate; a lot of us like to find others to ride with and I have had many a good time with some random rider I met out on a back road. It's an appealing thing about the sport.

On the matter of "it's not my problem," you're right in the sense that he's holding the throttle and making the decisions. Doc Wong's recent thread about a lawyer trying to sue on behalf of a rider who crashed trying to keep up with a faster rider notwithstanding, you're not legally responsible for what another vehicle operator chooses to do.

Ride with others long enough though, and you'll find some who look to you as an example and follow your lead, whether it's a good idea or not. Many years ago, a friend crashed behind me, trying to enter a corner as fast as he'd seen me do. He couldn't turn the bike quickly enough, ran off into the dirt and after struggling along in a drainage ditch and narrowly missing a power pole, he highsided at fairly low speed. Being a really skinny guy, without a lot of natural cushion, he got pretty banged up, suffering several broken ribs, punctured lung, a broken back and being knocked out.

He credited the first aid I rendered with either saving his life or at least saving him from worse harm when he regained consciousness and began fighting incoherently to stand up. While he was giving me that credit, I was feeling very badly for having sucked him into the turn, because, let's face it -- I did. While I didn't know or really expect that he would attempt to enter the corner that fast, I know without a doubt he would never have tried it if he hadn't seen me do it.

The experience forever changed how I ride with others. I size other riders up carefully and look for subtle signs that they are riding over their heads and the pace at which that begins. If I'm leading, I roll off on straights so we can stay together and I set my turn entry speeds to what I know they can handle. I watch in my mirrors to see if they are making errors and adjust the pace if necessary.

While you can't control what another rider does, you can control the "inspiration" you may provide to the guy behind you. When we are newer to riding, we don't have a real sense of how good we are or aren't and for many of us, there is a period where we compare ourselves to others through friendly, unspoken competition. Some people may have the maturity to skip this phase. I didn't. Either way, once that's over with, it becomes easier to ride with an awareness of and regard for the effects our example is having on others' behavior. Right or wrong, that effect isn't nonexistent.
 
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noobies need to learn to make it sound like they are way worse than they really are. That way other noobs don't look to them for advise and when you do end up riding with them there are no disappointments. I always downplay my experiance level when meeting new riders. Its just easier that way and can lead to a lot of fun when they are standing around bragging about how awesome they are then when you all get going they see you behind them riding one handed. lol
 
already said a million times im sure. ride the road not the rider in front of you.
 
Man,new riders must be pansies nowadays.:twofinger I learned to ride at 15,my mom's boyfriend got me a honda cb 450(1970 vintage)and took me down to the local middle school and watched me ride around the parking lot for about half an hour.
After he got bored watching me ride around he told me "time to go",put all of his 250 lbs on the back seat of the honda and rode bitch with me at the controls back home.
Talk about pressure,no helmets or gear(this was 1978)lots of traffic and a very big man on the back but I made it home and rode that honda through high school.The only time I went down was practicing a u-turn and gassed it a bit much ,burned my leg(wearing shorts)on the muffler.

Now,I don't recommend learning to ride in this fashion but I guess what I'm sayin' is folks gotta be responsible for themselves.If you take up riding and don't have the sense to ride within your means that is nobodys fault but your own,NOT THE GUY YOU JUST MET OR ANYBODY ELSE YOU RIDE WITH.IT'S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Ok,I'm done. Time for another drink.:thumbup
 
Tzrider put it perfectly

Yeah I do realize I sucked him into that turn and I most likely won't let it happen with another rider, but damn I know if I was in his position I would have been able to control myself and slowed down
 
I'm very lucky- my riding buddies explained from the first ride we did:

-do NOT try to keep up with us
-someone will always be ahead of you (except that one time I accidentally took off down China grade)
-someone will always be behind you (they trade off so one person doesn't have to be bored for too long)
-once you're doing well on your own, somoene will always wait for you at an intersection, or if we haven't seen you in a while.
-when we stop for lunch, we will give you all kinds of hell about what you need to do better

It has helped me SO much to have experienced riders take the time to make sure I am learning the right things.
I get that some people would be bored/irritated having a baby rider with them, but for those with the patience (and skills), I'm very grateful.
 
I think one of the best things about the learning aspect of riding is, at one point you'll have a chance to get to look at yourself and actually figure out if you are a grown-ass person or a giant man/woman-baby.
 
Man,new riders must be pansies nowadays.:twofinger I learned to ride at 15,my mom's boyfriend got me a honda cb 450(1970 vintage)and took me down to the local middle school and watched me ride around the parking lot for about half an hour.
After he got bored watching me ride around he told me "time to go",put all of his 250 lbs on the back seat of the honda and rode bitch with me at the controls back home.
Talk about pressure,no helmets or gear(this was 1978)lots of traffic and a very big man on the back but I made it home and rode that honda through high school.The only time I went down was practicing a u-turn and gassed it a bit much ,burned my leg(wearing shorts)on the muffler.

Now,I don't recommend learning to ride in this fashion but I guess what I'm sayin' is folks gotta be responsible for themselves.If you take up riding and don't have the sense to ride within your means that is nobodys fault but your own,NOT THE GUY YOU JUST MET OR ANYBODY ELSE YOU RIDE WITH.IT'S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Ok,I'm done. Time for another drink.:thumbup

Wait, I think your moms boyfriend was also dating my mom and taught me to ride as well!!

:laughing
 
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