I'm in a Catch-22!

[Roadstergal]

The good thing about non-op is it gives you the option to go back to street again someday. It might not matter, but if you get the transportation cert and let the reg lapse, the back fees to re-reg the bike get prohibitive fast. I don't anticipate ever putting my track bike back to street, but I figure it keeps the value up if I ever have to sell it.

 

[HalfEvil]

State farm has told me numerous times that my bikes and cars are not covered during race events, or trackdays. Basically any incident out on track is not covered.

They were willing to offer a third party insurance that did cover these types of events.

I was just asking for informational purposes, as my track bike is MSO only, and not insured.

 

[Z3n]

The good thing about non-op is it gives you the option to go back to street again someday. It might not matter, but if you get the transportation cert and let the reg lapse, the back fees to re-reg the bike get prohibitive fast. I don't anticipate ever putting my track bike back to street, but I figure it keeps the value up if I ever have to sell it.

I recently went through this. It doesn't cause back fees, because it's a legitimate form of registration. The DMV people didn't try to charge me when I brought it back to fully registered status. The transport cert is a form of very specific registration for track only bikes, so your registration hasn't lapsed. Back fees only accrue when the bike is unregistered and you have paid no fees. Taking it back to the street was as easy as going into the DMV and saying that I was done racing the bike and wanted it transferred back to a normal registration

It's also worth noting that it is technically illegal to transport a non-op bike on public highways, even in the back of a truck. It's highly unlikely anyone would ever call you on it, but that's the letter of the law.

 

[Tim-That CX Guy]

Put the bike on a trailer, haul it home.

Call in that you had an accident outside of the track on your way home.

Tell no one.

 

[Roadstergal]

It doesn't cause back fees, because it's a legitimate form of registration. The DMV people didn't try to charge me when I brought it back to fully registered status.

Hm, that's the opposite of what I heard, but I'll take firsthand experience over that.

It's also worth noting that it is technically illegal to transport a non-op bike on public highways, even in the back of a truck. It's highly unlikely anyone would ever call you on it, but that's the letter of the law.

I asked that specific question about the legality of transporting a non-op bike in the LEO forum, as the law seems grey to me, and got no good answer. It's just another advantage a van has over a truck, though - out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Z3n]

Hm, that's the opposite of what I heard, but I'll take firsthand experience over that.

Unfortunately, the DMV is pretty fallible on things like that. Race transportation registrations are really, really rare and they often don't know how to handle them. You gotta know the legal code and be prepared to fight it out with them. But always politely

I asked that specific question about the legality of transporting a non-op bike in the LEO forum, as the law seems grey to me, and got no good answer. It's just another advantage a van has over a truck, though - out of sight, out of mind.

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr01.htm

Not a lot of wiggle room there:

California law requires vehicles to be currently registered if they are driven, towed, stored, or parked on public roads or highways at any time during the registration period.

Non-operational means that the vehicle will not be driven, towed, stored, or parked on public roads or highways for the entire registration year.

 

[Roadstergal]

If it's in the back of a van, it's not being driven, towed, stored, or parked. It's being transported.

 

[Z3n]

If it's in the back of a van, it's not being driven, towed, stored, or parked. It's being transported.

You could certainly make that argument. I'm not sure if it'd be considered valid by the courts though, considering the existence of a specific permit that explicitly allows the transportation of a race vehicle.

Also, the direct CVC (not the paraphrase from the FAQ of the CA DMV website) section 4000 says:

4000. (a) (1) No person shall drive, move, or leave standing upon a highway, or in an offstreet public parking facility, any motor vehicle...unless it is registered and the appropriate fees have been paid under this code or registered under the permanent trailer identification program, except that an off-highway motor vehicle which displays an identification plate or device issued by the department pursuant to Section 38010 may be driven, moved, or left standing in an offstreet public parking facility without being registered or paying registration fees.

I don't think that you could argue for it not being moved on a highway even in the back of a van. Of course, the officer would need probable cause to search the van, but that's easily arranged in today's world. :|

And just to cover all the bases:

Section 38010 lists the exceptions (CA Code: 4006, 4010, 4012, 4013, 4015, 4018, and 4019)

4006. A vehicle which is driven or moved upon a highway only for the purpose of crossing the highway from one property to another in accordance with a permit issued by the Department of Transportation is exempt from registration.

4010 is for construction equipment.
4012 is for cemetery equipment. (Might be able to sneak it in here...)
4013 is forklift
4015 is firefighting
4018 is logging equipment
4019 is for golf carts

This is also convenient proof that your race transportation permit is a valid registration, as it specifically allows transportation of the vehicle on highways, which is illegal if the vehicle is not registered

And now you have more information than you ever wanted to know about the CA DMV.

 

[Roadstergal]

Hmm, wonder why nobody pulled that one out when I asked. Reading more, you can get a transport permit for free for a PNO vehicle.

It's more than Riddler wanted to know, for sure, except for vans FTW (which always needs to be said).

 

[Flying Pig]

Thanks for the educational lesson Z3n
(not sarcasm)

 

[Z3n]

Hmm, wonder why nobody pulled that one out when I asked. Reading more, you can get a transport permit for free for a PNO vehicle.

It's more than Riddler wanted to know, for sure, except for vans FTW (which always needs to be said).

I have a feeling that the LEOs were evasive on the answer because of what a clusterfuck trying to enforce it would be. I mean, it makes perfect sense from a legal standpoint, if they're on the road, they should be paying for it, but I wouldn't want to have to explain it to a guy who I've got pulled over on the side of the road.

Thanks for the educational lesson Z3n
(not sarcasm)

No problem, someone beside me should see the benefit of me doing all that goddamn research when I had my first racebike.

 

[Roadstergal]

I mean, it makes perfect sense from a legal standpoint, if they're on the road, they should be paying for it

Not really. The vehicle doing the work is registered and insured. It's not different, in essence, from carrying a pile of bike parts in a van.

Reg for towing makes some kind of sense - the vehicles are out there in the air and could possibly cause chaos that needs insurance. But in this case, the bike is fully encapsulated in a registered and insured vehicle.

 

[TheRiddler]

Put the bike on a trailer, haul it home.

Call in that you had an accident outside of the track on your way home.

Tell no one.

That's exactly what I'm avoiding from both a legal and moral view. Which is why I sought out an agency that would cover me for a track crash.

To the above poster who said State Farm wouldn't cover it, they told you wrong. They said, and I quote, "As long as it isn't racing, you're covered."

 

[Ozymandias]

That's exactly what I'm avoiding from both a legal and moral view. Which is why I sought out an agency that would cover me for a track crash.

To the above poster who said State Farm wouldn't cover it, they told you wrong. They said, and I quote, "As long as it isn't racing, you're covered."

Yeah, but you could avoid that by buying a track bike. Just so happens I know a guy that has one for sale that just hasn't been put on BARF yet.

 

[TheRiddler]

Yeah, but you could avoid that by buying a track bike. Just so happens I know a guy that has one for sale that just hasn't been put on BARF yet.

I know him too Feel free to shoot me a PM since I may be interested now.

 

[Z3n]

Not really. The vehicle doing the work is registered and insured. It's not different, in essence, from carrying a pile of bike parts in a van.

Reg for towing makes some kind of sense - the vehicles are out there in the air and could possibly cause chaos that needs insurance. But in this case, the bike is fully encapsulated in a registered and insured vehicle.

Ok, let me try to explain this better. Here's the CVC:

No person shall drive, move, or leave standing upon a highway, or in an offstreet public parking facility, any motor vehicle unless it is registered

The argument that it's fully encapsulated in a van is irrelevant because it's still being moved down the highway. If you want to argue that it's not a vehicle, the definition of a motorcycle in the CVC is a frame, front forks, and motor. If you are transporting those parts (joined together, obviously), you're moving a vehicle.

So yes, vans are superior for the out of sight, out of mind aspect, but legally it's irrelevant how the vehicle is being moved, if it's being moved down a highway and fits the criteria for being a motorcycle.

You could, however, pull the front forks off and it wouldn't be a motorcycle anymore legally.

To the above poster who said State Farm wouldn't cover it, they told you wrong. They said, and I quote, "As long as it isn't racing, you're covered."

I'm insured through state farm. The exact verbiage in the policy is "not a timed event". This can apply to some trackdays if they're tracking your laptimes, so be careful with that.

 

[Ozymandias]

pm sent.

 

[Roadstergal]

You're talking letter now, which I already ceded. I was addressing your point about intent ('if you're on the road, you should be paying for it') in the post above.

 

[Z3n]

You're talking letter now, which I already ceded. I was addressing your point about intent ('if you're on the road, you should be paying for it') in the post above.

well now I feel like a moran.

 

[NorCal_SV650S]

Or if you don't want to get a track bike, at least invest in Race Tires, Race Plastics and maybe even a spare dented tank so that there wouldnt be much to damage after that.