Is holding hands in public important part of a relationship..?

[Hooli]

On the counter @ Krispy Kreme then?

 

[rebekahlynn]

That was a secret Hooli!

 

[Melissa]

If all of the financially secure women that you have dated aren't into PDA then I believe that the most important factor is you. Is it possible that you have a pattern of choosing partners that are not comfortable w/that kinda behavior? Maybe they were not comfortable engaging in that behavior with you.

If it came across to you as "I got money so I don't need a man" then again I'd hazard to say that as the commmon denominator is your projection of your own insecurity.
Charlie it is actually ok to admit that you might be insecure around strong minded, successful women. Those qualities might feel emasculating to you. That's ok too. It seems that you've found an excellent life partner at this time (engaged right?)

Regarding successful long term relationships.....Do you honestly believe that women who are financially secure are not able to be in a successful relationship?
This correlation of yours seems to lead you to the conclusion that women are better off staying home and caring for their man and babies. Is this not a very restrictive role for a woman? Is that safe for you?

Maybe the truth lies in the possibility that you have a need to dominate and feel powerful in your intimate relationships and have women who have dissappointed you in the past.

Just a thought.

I dunno since when. Just my observation that all the financially independent women i've dated (and its been a few), have been that they arnt as cool with public displays of affection (PDA). just to hazard a guess, maybe with financial independence in women, there also seems to come a independence of mind - to me it comes across a lot like "I got money so I dont need a man". Some outright seem to not even WANT a man. Once *most* women get ahold of *real* money, it instantly turns to "no man is good enough for me"; likely because they are so independent and financially successful, that they require a man who is equally (or likely more so) as such - and anyone who is not - gets labeled not good enough. consequently most of these women are self absorbed, dont want to seem "weak" in public, so they are usually less OK with PDAs - they just cant seem to give themselves to their man... most end up in unsuccessful relationships, and in the end, end up alone. I see it A LOT. a lot.

most of (i'm talkin' VAST majority) financially independent older women I know, are single (and/or have NEVER had a more than a couple year relationship with a guy), my mom included. All the moms of all the girls i've ever dated included, minus Violet, but even her mom is divorced and has had time to have 1 relationship beyond that marriage - a relationship that failed, largely in part due to money disagreements (the guy not 'having enough'), big shocker there!

come to think of it, I dont think i've ever met a financially independent (and i'm not talking paycheck to paycheck, i'm talking $70k/yr or more) woman who was in a successful long term relationship, AND was totally down with PDAs. are they thinking that some 'better catch' might be watching and they want to appear single?! i dunno, hopefully its just a lack of life experience problem on my end; i'm sure they are out there.... just seems few and far between.

A bit off subject, but while we're here - IMO, when America moved into the territory that women were forced to work b/c the man couldnt earn enough to pay for mortgage, kids, food, etc - the male to female relationship structure lost A LOT. In Mexico and other counties where the women still stay at home and watch the kids and clean and make food; the women are totally (and i mean 100%) OK and happy with that. they are happy to support the family in that way, and the union and agreements between the male and female role are clear. here in the great ol' US of A, when women work and earn real money, their expectations seem to change, and the role of male and female along with it. and with that change of role, PDAs seem to get left behind. Wish I could tell you why, its a pretty sad state of affairs.

 

[Bassem]

 

[Melissa]

the word that I am looking for is patriarchal.
There are many men who feel more comfortable living in a patriarchal society where the male and female roles are clearly defined and the males have a dominant position.

Throughout history patriarchal societies have existed on every continent and some still remain in tact.

I think you brought up Mexico as an example of patriarchy. You say that you truly believe that the women are happy staying at home, cooking and cleaning.
The machismo in Mexico is strong indeed.
The women are safe and secure and love their roles in life right?

Maybe you can do a bit of research into this belief of yours. It might be that you would love the role as a male in a patriarchal society and that's ok if it floats your boat. Truly it is.
But do not for one second believe that the women who are second class citizens are happy in their obedient role. Do not assume that you can even understand what it is like for a woman to be subservient and "happy"

Please Charlie, open your fucking mind and expand it to consider the realities of someone other than you. You seem fairly self indulgent, no?

All this and I continue to like you very much Charlie! Can't wait to see you out there again...........

 

[m_asim]

without thought to who is watching or whether I'm "discouraging" someone "better" from pursuing me.

How u doin?

How often do you go to In N Out? I go there often enough that they don't even ask me what I want. I bet your soon-to-be-ex-after-you-meet-me boyfriend does not carry this kind of street cred.

 

[rebekahlynn]

Hahaha, not that often. Went last night so it was the first place to come to mind.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

lolz keep it coming girl, i dont plan to respond for a day or so. but u are twisting a lotta words there and coming to a lot of conclusions!


yes i HATE powerful women, especially rich powerful women, especially rich powerful attractive women! especially those damn women that have their own opinions and want to lead their own lives! oh fucking DAMN those BITCHES! they should all be in the kitchen making babies and sammiches and cleaning and serving their man. because that is THEIR PLACE. its what GOD intended!



yea, thats the guy i am. totally.

 

[Abacinator]

^^^^^^^^
Huh. I did not get that from Melissa's post at all.

 

[Lester Green]

yes i HATE powerful women, especially rich powerful women, especially rich powerful attractive women! especially those damn women that have their own opinions and want to lead their own lives! oh fucking DAMN those BITCHES! they should all be in the kitchen making babies and sammiches and cleaning and serving their man. because that is THEIR PLACE. its what GOD intended!

you sensationalized for comedic reasons but there is A LOT of truth in what you are saying whether you want to believe it or not. your insecurity in regards to woman is very real. One only has to read and understand what you post in order come to that conclusion. it's not like you're a master at hiding your feelings. it appears from your posts that you wear your emotions on your sleeve and post whatever thought comes into your head.

 

[MysterYvil]

lolz keep it coming girl, i dont plan to respond for a day or so. but u are twisting a lotta words there and coming to a lot of conclusions!


yes i HATE powerful women, especially rich powerful women, especially rich powerful attractive women! especially those damn women that have their own opinions and want to lead their own lives! oh fucking DAMN those BITCHES! they should all be in the kitchen making babies and sammiches and cleaning and serving their man. because that is THEIR PLACE. its what GOD intended!



yea, thats the guy i am. totally.

Self-absorbed at every turn, eh?

 

[Melissa]

this is not about making fun of Charlie nor his views.
I happen to disagree with his opinion and have some thoughts about why he might think the way he does.
I am also strongly against making statements that women love their role as second class, subservient members of any society.
Certainly we are both entitled to our opinions and experiences. I wanted to participate in a discussion. Maybe he and I should take it to pm's because ganging up on a person is not the right thing to do.

 

[EjGlows]

I don't like holding hands and I don't like financially independent women.

There are emotions that manifest themselves in physical gestures, and that's okay.

 

[Removed 3]

There's no set formula. No PDA works if both of you are uncomfortable with or don't feel the sudden urge for PDA. If she wants to hold hands in public and you don't like to and after having a discussion about it with her later, it is still an issue, then you should figure out what you are comfortable with doing to show her you are there in the moment with her. If she's reaching out and you don't hold her hand, your body language has the same effect as ignoring her or brushing her off. If hand holding is not your thing, then you should think of some other gesture like a wink or a smile that will assure her you are presently there for her. Or maybe you don't have the same emotions for her when you're out in public compared to when you are together alone (that you believe being out in public means you shouldn't be all lovey-dovey), i would say keep your gestures genuine and don't go through the motions just because you think it will please her.

EjGlows is correct about the manifestation of emotions in physical gestures ... sometimes from out of the blue, i'll put my hands on his chipmunk cheeks and give him a big smooch in public but i will rarely initiate the hand-holding ...

Charlie, I think it is great that you are engaged to someone who loves you for just the way you are, in fact the way she talks about you, she adores you. Maybe the Gods made it that you never stuck with any one woman until you found your sweetie

Hey, we all form our opinions about racism and other generations based on our own personal experiences, I am sure it goes the same for forming opinions about the opposite sex and people in socio-economic groups different from yours. The more people you meet from all walks of life and try to get to know them despite your differences in opinion, the less likely you will be to make blanket statements about one group or the other ...

 

[CockyRooster]

I've actually found successful and independent women to be quite pleasant in every aspect.

 

[Reli]

Originally Posted by SpeedyCorky
come to think of it, I dont think i've ever met a financially independent (and i'm not talking paycheck to paycheck, i'm talking $70k/yr or more) woman who was in a successful long term relationship, AND was totally down with PDAs.

The more "financially independent" someone is, the more likely they're some kind of white collar professional who might ALSO be responsible for managing others. And to maintain a career like that, you have to be a bit more buttoned-up. Perception matters. So it's not surprising that they'd be less likely to suck face on a public sidewalk than someone who works at Chipotle or Fantastic Sam's. It's not some conspiracy, dude.

 

[CockyRooster]

Ah...that V4...she's a white collar professional?

 

[Daks]

the word that I am looking for is patriarchal.
There are many men who feel more comfortable living in a patriarchal society where the male and female roles are clearly defined and the males have a dominant position.

Throughout history patriarchal societies have existed on every continent and some still remain in tact.

I think you brought up Mexico as an example of patriarchy. You say that you truly believe that the women are happy staying at home, cooking and cleaning.
The machismo in Mexico is strong indeed.
The women are safe and secure and love their roles in life right?

Maybe you can do a bit of research into this belief of yours. It might be that you would love the role as a male in a patriarchal society and that's ok if it floats your boat. Truly it is.
But do not for one second believe that the women who are second class citizens are happy in their obedient role. Do not assume that you can even understand what it is like for a woman to be subservient and "happy"

Please Charlie, open your fucking mind and expand it to consider the realities of someone other than you. You seem fairly self indulgent, no?

All this and I continue to like you very much Charlie! Can't wait to see you out there again...........

I'd like to know if he thinks the women who can't even breast feed their children because they don't get enough to eat themselves while being held prisoner in their own homes by gang members and drug wars are perfectly happy, personally. Or the women in the middle east who are imprisoned or killed for having sex outside of marriage for reporting a rape. Or even here in the US, how girls are blamed when they are raped after drinking and then when their rapists are convicted, they receive death threats while the attackers are sympathized with. I love it when people assume I must be a lesbian if I ride a motorcycle. I love it when they assume I can't ride it well because I have a vagina. I love it when I am told I don't know what's good for my own body. I love having to cross the street if I'm walking alone at night and a man is coming in the other direction. I love having to hear about how that "hurts mens' feelings" when we assume they may attack us, though we've been taught by men that it's up to us to avoid it. I love having to hear male opinion on how women feel about their lives based on the handful they've known.

Oh yes, we love that.

Some women fit into the household role very well and it makes them happy. Others don't. Personally, fuck cooking. I don't even like eating and I do it out of necessity. I don't like cleaning. I like things to be clean because like eating, it is a necessity. To me, a relationship should never be counted in dollars or anything for that matter. It should be two people able to better their lives in a mutually enjoyable way by being together.

Maybe he has never been with a financially independent woman long because they realize he expects them to be a mother he can fuck and have the ability to get out.
The thing is that the female gender is changing to improve itself and the male gender is pissy that they're getting their power equalized. Of course things were "happier" back in the day when women were subservient from a male perspective. I'm sure when my father raped my mother she was just all a smitten with how the judge told her "it isn't rape if you're married."

You know, way back in 1993.

Men like Charlie refuse to give up their power and women with him are unhappy because they can't get over themselves while we move on.

 

[Melissa]

huh, a strongly opinionated and reasonable post^^^^^^
imagine that! I would gladly hold your hand in public Daks.
Even if we were not on a date.

 

[kevin 714]

I'd like to know if he thinks the women who can't even breast feed their children because they don't get enough to eat themselves while being held prisoner in their own homes by gang members and drug wars are perfectly happy, personally. Or the women in the middle east who are imprisoned or killed for having sex outside of marriage for reporting a rape. Or even here in the US, how girls are blamed when they are raped after drinking and then when their rapists are convicted, they receive death threats while the attackers are sympathized with. I love it when people assume I must be a lesbian if I ride a motorcycle. I love it when they assume I can't ride it well because I have a vagina. I love it when I am told I don't know what's good for my own body. I love having to cross the street if I'm walking alone at night and a man is coming in the other direction. I love having to hear about how that "hurts mens' feelings" when we assume they may attack us, though we've been taught by men that it's up to us to avoid it. I love having to hear male opinion on how women feel about their lives based on the handful they've known.

Oh yes, we love that.

Some women fit into the household role very well and it makes them happy. Others don't. Personally, fuck cooking. I don't even like eating and I do it out of necessity. I don't like cleaning. I like things to be clean because like eating, it is a necessity. To me, a relationship should never be counted in dollars or anything for that matter. It should be two people able to better their lives in a mutually enjoyable way by being together.

Maybe he has never been with a financially independent woman long because they realize he expects them to be a mother he can fuck and have the ability to get out.
The thing is that the female gender is changing to improve itself and the male gender is pissy that they're getting their power equalized. Of course things were "happier" back in the day when women were subservient from a male perspective. I'm sure when my father raped my mother she was just all a smitten with how the judge told her "it isn't rape if you're married."

You know, way back in 1993.

Men like Charlie refuse to give up their power and women with him are unhappy because they can't get over themselves while we move on.

While I agree with your post and feel equality for everyone is essential, I do think there's a certain something lost in cultural and clear gender roles. I wouldn't ask for a return to those things by any means. but I do think we are living smack dab in the middle of a cultural paradigm shift that includes not just gender roles, but family roles and marriage. What family WAS, no longer is. We are in that transition, and we don't really know whatit will BE.

Philosophically it's interesting as the entire notion of family and gender role is changing. For better or for worse, gender roles provided people with purpose. And not unlike a dog who really wants a job to do, humans LOVE purpose. Right now there's sort of an aimless feeling as the old purpose was disposed of, but the new purpose has yet to be cemented