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Is MSF really that useful?

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I'm on the other spectrum of msteinburg. New rider as well, but starting with a 250 instead of a litré bike.

I think any range time is always beneficial regardless of how long you have ridden.

Experience is experience. Whether it's worth $200 or not, is a judgment call. Insurance discount is something like 10%, which you will make up later on down the road. You can usually get MSF discounts on gear as well.

Aside from everyone else's points noted earlier, I the biggest value add was having a seasoned ride coach evaluating your form. Even if you think you're the best rider in the world, reality will set in and they will tell you exactly what you're doing that will get you killed if you don't change your ways. Of course everyone has their own style, but being aware of your actions is critical.

As much as I've learned from the the texts, putting them into actual use is the hard part. I know what to do in situations, but will I do it every time? the Range helps you prep your reaction time to the point where it becomes second nature (as it should be).

I took the class before I even hopped on a bike to just test the waters to see if I even wanted to ride at all. Another pro was skipping the DMV riding exam with the certificate. I'm obviously hooked since I'm here now.
 
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msteinberg said:
I've read all the MSF course materials, passed the written and practical exam at the DMV. I just don't see the point of taking the course when I've read all the materials and no one has provided a cogent argument on why I should take it.

Michael
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The range exercises are not in the workbook. The workbook is an overview on riding technique and street strategy.

The range experience will provide you with 10 hours of riding instruction - when have you ever had anyone that knew what they were doing observe your riding and give you spot-on feedback in correcting your technique or applying new ones?

The very fact that you're even asking means that you're not sure if you would learn anything or not - to a motorcylcist, that "not sure" feeling means you should do it. Far better to "waste" 200 bucks and know, than never spend it and miss picking up some fundamental skills that could contribute to your never becoming a proficient motorcyclist.


And please reconsider your choices in first bikes - you should modify your search by dimensions, not engine size. There are plenty of physically larger bikes that are more forgiving in their power output - don't let peer pressure or a desire to have the "baddest" bike be the last decision that you make.

FWIW - a 180rwhp bike will retard your development as a rider if it's your first bike. Once you make that first unintentional power wheelie by goosing the throttle when you hit a bump, you're going to be intimidated by the throttle after that. That intimidation will prevent you from relaxing enough to actually work on riding technique. Picture yourself entering a blind right-hand corner and hitting a bump mid-turn that causes you to pin the throttle 1/2". That 1/2" on a ZX14 just spun the rear tire out or lofted the front wheel, sideways - with you drifting into oncoming traffic.

That same 1/2" on a bike with 80 fewer hp may have just caused the bike to run wide, correctable by a little more lean angle.

The first can kill you, the second may only startle you. Let's say you made it through the first scenario, and are now scared shitless of the bike that you've still got $12k in payments to make....


The choice, of course, is yours - just don't think that everyone on here telling you not to pull the trigger is doing so just because they don't want you to have your dream bike. The folks around here have seen your same scenario time and time again, always with dire consequences.

Bigger does not necessarily mean better - ask around hear for folks who've been riding for more than 10 years that own a 'busa, or that would consider one for their next purchase. I'm sure you'll find that list to be very short...


Good luck, whichever way you go about it.

-Q!
 
msteinberg said:
I already know how to ride and I read the course book for the MSF class:

http://www.msf-usa.org/CurriculumMaterials/BRC_Handbook_VS7_noprnt.pdf

I think most of the information in there is obvious and I don't really see a reason to pay $200 for the class when you can read the book for free. Am I missing something there?
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Would you step into the ring with a Karate expert after reading a bunch of books on martial arts? Because I can guarantee you that your average Toyota Tundra at 65mph hits harder than Chuck Norris.

So I suppose the short answer to your question is "ya" and the long answer to your question is "yes"

Stefan
 
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QuaiChangKane,

The reason I was asking is because I've heard that MSF is good instruction, however, after finding out that the materials were online, and reading them thoroughly, I feel satisfied that I do not need to take the class.

Michael
 
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Ok so you say you know how to ride...do you know how not to crash? Know what to do when shit happens?

The BRC taught me the skills to avoid going down. They give you all hints of their own experiences and let you practice emergency techniques in a safe environment. It is not just about riding, it is about being safe and knowing how and when to react in order to save your life.

I know my life is worth more then $200, how much is yours worth to you?
 
msteinberg said:
QuaiChangKane,

The reason I was asking is because I've heard that MSF is good instruction, however, after finding out that the materials were online, and reading them thoroughly, I feel satisfied that I do not need to take the class.

Michael
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Maybe you should swing by a range and observe a class before making your final decision. I would suggest going on a day they are doing R2. :ride
 
msteinburg's post and comment reminds me of someone who played with MS Flight Simulator, taking a single "learn to fly for $55" trip then saying that he/she knows how to fly a fixed wing aircraft.

Or a average guy that reads the Beginner's Guide to Karate book, finishing it, and says that he knows Karate and how to defend himself.

Or some who takes an online course in paralegal, gets a certificate, and goes out stating that they know all about being a paralegal.

:toothless :later
 
MotoAngel said:
Ok so you say you know how to ride...do you know how not to crash? Know what to do when shit happens?

The BRC taught me the skills to avoid going down. They give you all hints of their own experiences and let you practice emergency techniques in a safe environment. It is not just about riding, it is about being safe and knowing how and when to react in order to save your life.

I know my life is worth more then $200, how much is yours worth to you?
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+1

MSteinberg,

One of the two people that actually went down during my class, one on the "Braking Quickly in a Turn" exercise and the other for the "Offset Weave" came to the class on a bike and said he knew how to ride, and just didn't want to take the DMV riding test.

p.s. I spent more on my gloves than I did on the MSF class. Its not a cost issue when your hide is at stake.

Stefan
 
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Note to all people contemplating posting in this thread:
This thread is in the Training Forum, and as such we need to keep it on topic. Name calling, baiting, and flaming does not belong in this thread. There are other areas of BARF where that is tolerated, but it isn't here. We need to keep this area of BARF more friendly to both the new and old members. The only way to help people learn is to keep them from shutting down. We need to keep them listening to the good, useful, and important information.

Thanks!
 
I don't understand something about this guy. He asks questions, but don't like the answers.

I thought the MSF was a great course and worth every penny. Even though I had a little experience riding, being critiqued while on the bike was worth it's weight in gold.
 
I had to take the course awhile ago to get a sticker to go on military bases. I had been riding for 15 years and thought it was retarded that i had to do this.

While taking the course, I was surprised on how changeling some of the drill were and i learned a thing or two. It was a great refresher on some things that could save your life while riding.

Keep an open mind and give it a try.

And my insurance did not give me a discount because of this course.
 
msteinberg said:
QuaiChangKane,

The reason I was asking is because I've heard that MSF is good instruction, however, after finding out that the materials were online, and reading them thoroughly, I feel satisfied that I do not need to take the class.

Michael
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All of the materials are not available online. As was mentioned in a prior post, there are 10hrs of actual hands on riding experience.

What riding experience do you have? How long have you been riding? How many miles? What size and types of motorcycles?
 
Enchanter said:
All of the materials are not available online. As was mentioned in a prior post, there are 10hrs of actual hands on riding experience.

What riding experience do you have? How long have you been riding? How many miles? What size and types of motorcycles?
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Here I'll let you try me,

  1. I think about 150k Miles
  2. ridden bike ranging from kaw250-harley full dressers
  3. Cruiser, sportbikes, sport tourers and a little dirt track, street, trail riding, and of course track days.

this way there will be an example.

I'm not saying I cant learn anything, but have considered taking the course, but.....I'm not convinced it's worth the money either.
 
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Jason, if you want to do foundation work for your riding, even if just to make sure you have a good base to work from, go ahead and take the BRC (Basic Rider Course). If you can apply yourself and fully embrace the experience and apply yourself as a student, following directions, you will get something out of it. I'd suggest taking the ERC (Experienced Rider Course), but there are things that are done in the BRC that are not in the ERC that I personally believe are important.
 
Can you quantify for me how it will translate into my current riding or is that relative?
 
Sorry,m I just have to make this post.


In another thread, this guy talks about how financial sound he is and that insurance won't be an issue. If he has so much money, why can't he afford the insurance of instruction?

Regardless, he is on my ignore list. That makes him #2 to ever make the list (#1 has been removed for a long time as part of it was my blind stupidity).
 
ABN said:
Here I'll let you try me,

  1. I think about 150k Miles
  2. ridden bike ranging from kaw250-harley full dressers
  3. Cruiser, sportbikes, sport tourers and a little dirt track, street, trail riding, and of course track days.

this way there will be an example.

I'm not saying I cant learn anything, but have considered taking the course, but.....I'm not convinced it's worth the money either.
Click to expand...

You learned to ride from people who gave you a lot of hands on instruction. People pay for those folks to train them on the track now. Those people were good riders and racers, with a lot of valuable experience. Even with the experience I've gained from various racing schools; if I didn't have a license, I'd take the MSF course. If I had a license, I'd take the experienced rider course.

There is a lot of real world information in those classes that will help deal with the public roadways. There are also a lot of skills that are enforced that you use in situations on the roadways.

If you go into these classes with an open mind, (even if you ride the way they want you to already), they will reinforce the good habits.

With the insurance discount, they pay for themselves over time.
 
Jakemate said:
You learned to ride from people who gave you a lot of hands on instruction. People pay for those folks to train them on the track now. Those people were good riders and racers, with a lot of valuable experience. Even with the experience I've gained from various racing schools; if I didn't have a license, I'd take the MSF course. If I had a license, I'd take the experienced rider course.

There is a lot of real world information in those classes that will help deal with the public roadways. There are also a lot of skills that are enforced that you use in situations on the roadways.

If you go into these classes with an open mind, (even if you ride the way they want you to already), they will reinforce the good habits.

With the insurance discount, they pay for themselves over time.
Click to expand...
You cheater you :twofinger.
 
ABN said:
Can you quantify for me how it will translate into my current riding or is that relative?
Click to expand...

Let me put it to you this way Jason. I've taken a bunch of riding schools, and a lot of the things that the pros tell you are "advanced" skills, or "special techniques" are actually addressed in the BRC. It's just a matter of what you are willing to get out of it, and whether you can recognize those skills/techiques/tips/nuggets of wisdom as such.

There are rules that students are asked to adhere to on the range that are in large part for their own safety, and which people generaly focus on when they have negative things to say about the course. It is what's outside the safety rules, in the coaching, and in meeting the objectives of each and every exercise, where you can get a lot more out of the BRC.
 
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