Leaked Apache Video

[SuperMike]

If someone in America was shot for carrying a camera, shit would get out of control.

Well, first of all, shit is already out of control in Baghdad. It's a fucking war zone.

I didn't see the RPG (and when they said, "RPG!" I thought I was seeing a telephoto lens) but I'm pretty sure I saw a couple rifles (as well as cameras).

The attitude of the trigger-happy 'mericans was what I found to be most disturbing. Their urgency to engage in what clearly wasn't a combat scenario reminded me of teenagers playing a video game. Sad, really.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

looks to me like that heli was finally put to use doing what it was designed to do


didnt really see how the van who came to pick up the wounded guy was necessary to fire upon, no real proof they wern't civilians; but again as said, its a warzone, if you come help someone who just got shot up, good chance the enemy (us in this case) is still watching and will consider you a target of oppertunity

 

[My900ss]

I see a couple people with what appear to be cameras with neck straps on them. I've never seen a bendable rifle before...

Now you have...

 

[Beauregard]

I see a couple people with what appear to be cameras with neck straps on them. I've never seen a bendable rifle before...

There are at least two AK type rifles and one RPG being carried. I don't care if you're a world renown journalist, it you walk around a combat zone with armed bad guys you're bound to pick up some .30HE.

Bad day for JihadTV.

 

[B-Cuz]

Will have to watch the vid later when I return home although I find this statement to be irritating.

At least 179 reporters and media assistants have been killed in Iraq since the invasion, according to the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists.

I can't help but imagine that some of these reporters were thinking "Emmy" when they or their staff were killed.

 

[Karbon]

Will have to watch the vid later when I return home although I find this statement to be irritating.

I can't help but imagine that some of these reporters were thinking "Emmy" when they or their staff were killed.

You mean Pulitzer? I imagine the last thing on any die hard journo's mind is a Pulitzer prize.

 

[crank1000]

Now you have...

Touché... not that Iraqi insurgents could likely afford those though.

There are at least two AK type rifles and one RPG being carried. I don't care if you're a world renown journalist, it you walk around a combat zone with armed bad guys you're bound to pick up some .30HE.

Bad day for JihadTV.

Evidence they were bad guys? I don't think carrying a gun immediately qualifies someone as a 'bad guy.' But as someone mentioned earlier, if they were in fact firing on the heli (which I didn't see in the vid, but may have happened), then that's a different story.

 

[gnahc79]

Touché... not that Iraqi insurgents could likely afford those though.



Evidence they were bad guys? I don't think carrying a gun immediately qualifies someone as a 'bad guy.' But as someone mentioned earlier, if they were in fact firing on the heli (which I didn't see in the vid, but may have happened), then that's a different story.

+1 on war sucks

from the transcript

14:53 Bushmaster or element. Which Element called in Crazyhorse to engage the eight-elem- eight-men team on top of a roof.
15:02 Bushmaster Six; this is Hotel Two-Six. Uh, I believe that was me.
15:07 They uh had AK-47s and were to our east, so, where we were taking small arms fire. Over.
15:20 Hotel Crazyhorse One-Eight.
15:26 Crazyhorse One-Eight; this is Hotel Two-Six.
15:28 Yeah Two-Six. One-Eight I just also wanted to make sure you knew that we had a guy with an RPG cropping round the corner getting ready to fire on your location.
15:36 That's why we ah, requested permission to engage.

 

[My900ss]

Touché... not that Iraqi insurgents could likely afford those though.

No, they cannot I just happened to see this rifle on the Military Channel as I was flipping through the other day so when you said bendable rifle I said yes there is.

 

[richt127]

Well, first of all, shit is already out of control in Baghdad. It's a fucking war zone.

I didn't see the RPG (and when they said, "RPG!" I thought I was seeing a telephoto lens) but I'm pretty sure I saw a couple rifles (as well as cameras).

The attitude of the trigger-happy 'mericans was what I found to be most disturbing. Their urgency to engage in what clearly wasn't a combat scenario reminded me of teenagers playing a video game. Sad, really.

SuperMike:

Trigger happy "mericans"? Video game? What ignorance. Think about the amount of people dying in the middle east on a daily basis, the uncertainties from the fog of war, and how blind it feels to be fighting in someone's backyard. Tell me Mike, can you imagine being in that state of mind and environment, are you really going try and second guess whether it's a RPG/rifle or just a camera?

I found your logics a bit contradicting, it seems to me that you are the one playing a video game; where enemies conveniently appears as a big red dot on your radar. Don't be so quick to simply conform to results, sir.

 

[SuperMike]

SuperMike:

Trigger happy "mericans"? Video game? What ignorance. Think about the amount of people dying in the middle east on a daily basis, the uncertainties from the fog of war, and how blind it feels to be fighting in someone's backyard. Tell me Mike, can you imagine being in that state of mind and environment, are you really going try and second guess whether it's a RPG/rifle or just a camera?

I found your logics a bit contradicting, it seems to me that you are the one playing a video game; where enemies conveniently appears as a big red dot on your radar. Don't be so quick to simply conform to results, sir.

What was the urgency in shooting the van? Maybe it was full of guns? Maybe it had kids in it. Our guys didn't know what was in the van but they were eager as shit to shoot it up. If comments like "C'mon, let me shoot." don't qualify as trigger-happy, then what does?

 

[gnahc79]

What was the urgency in shooting the van? Maybe it was full of guns? Maybe it had kids in it. Our guys didn't know what was in the van but they were eager as shit to shoot it up. If comments like "C'mon, let me shoot." don't qualify as trigger-happy, then what does?

In the right context I don't see the comment as trigger happy. More like "C'mon let me shoot so some dude doesn't pop out of the van and launch an RPG up my ass like last time".
The incident is very unfortunate regardless.

 

[2strokeYardSale]

- Roger, I've got uh eleven Iraqi KIAs [Killed In Action]. One small child wounded. Over.
- Roger. Ah damn. Oh well.

Oh well. It's Miller time.

 

[B-Cuz]

After viewing the video;

The whole war is as much a shitfest as the country itself. It's a typical "damned if you do and damned if you don't" type of situation. Hesitate in an engagement and you die, engage known enemies without recorded permission and you receive a court-martial, engage with permission but get it wrong and you receive a court-martial. FYI, military courts traditionally have high conviction rates.

Shit, in 2005 the ROE was so strict that whenever we took incoming no one returned fire since we did not have "adequate silhouettes." All we could do was "push through the engagement." (Night convoys) This video depicts the type of bullshit that happens day in and day out ever since insurgent forces got their asses handed to them in Fallujah, Nov 2003. Hide in the crowds. All one can do is say, "well shit, damn, sorry about that," and move on since the next mission is tomorrow. War is hell.

 

[TylerW]

I'd have to say the particularly chilling part was the gunner begging for the guy who was crawling to pick up a weapon so he could continue firing on him.

 

[richt127]

What was the urgency in shooting the van? Maybe it was full of guns? Maybe it had kids in it. Our guys didn't know what was in the van but they were eager as shit to shoot it up. If comments like "C'mon, let me shoot." don't qualify as trigger-happy, then what does?

It'd be nice if the rules of engagement was a mutual law that everyone followed. Regardless of intentions, but in that context and situation, where life and death is merely "a guess" away; consider the risk and consequences of losing your helo and men flying in range of a potential RPG attack.

I was a US Marine, and wars are indeed terrible; if it must be so, I'd rather make them die for their country, than me for mine.

 

[}Dragon{]

Sorry to say- it's a war zone. The guys that rushed in w/ the van, may have had the best intentions to help the injured, but rushing into the area w/ unfriendly aircraft is beyond foolish. It would be different if the shot up a civilian ambulance.

 

[Beauregard]

=I was a US Marine, and wars are indeed terrible; if it must be so, I'd rather make them die for their country, than me for mine.

Patton, who you've paraphrased, was an Army puke. You're a Marine, quote one.

"I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all."
Marine General James Mattis

 

[2strokeYardSale]

The guys that rushed in w/ the van, may have had the best intentions to help the injured, but rushing into the area w/ unfriendly aircraft is beyond foolish.

How does anybody know whether there are unfriendly aircraft operating? Fixed wing operate at tens of thousand of feet altitude, and the Apaches stand off well beyond visual range. It's not unreasonable for people to try to help the injured several minutes after they were attacked.

Here we would call that lying in wait for first responders, special circumstances, do not pass Go, do not collect $200 on the way to your lethal injection. There we call it, "Oh well."

Didn't the U.S. bomb the fuck out of the former Yugslovia when military snipers there did just that, shoot people then shoot the people who came to the victims' aid?

I guess the thing to do is to shrug, say "oh well," we're living in occupied territory, we can be shot at any time, might as well let the victims bleed out and let their corpses decompose.


Anyway, the attitude of the AH-64 crew is strangely similar to this Apache crew from Gulf War I. (Forward to 3:15.)

[youtube]L8-wr8_qRBQ[/youtube]

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

I see a couple people with what appear to be cameras with neck straps on them. I've never seen a bendable rifle before...

Have you ever seen a break action shotgun? Feel free to google it if you haven't.