Leaked Apache Video

[}Dragon{]

How does anybody know whether there are unfriendly aircraft operating?

They are shooting at your friends and/or you know who has air superiority at the time. It's sorta obvious it wasn't an 'insurgent' helicopter.

Here we would call that lying in wait for first responders, special circumstances, do not pass Go, do not collect $200 on the way to your lethal injection. There we call it, "Oh well."

Even first responders here are trained to wait until the scene is secure and to not become a victim.

 

[crank1000]

Have you ever seen a break action shotgun? Feel free to google it if you haven't.

The point has already been made that there were in fact weapons in other parts of the video. But the particular item in question was CLEARLY a piece of cloth/strap waving in the wind. But it's seems irrelevant since they seem to have been taking fire from someone, and it was likely the same group that also unfortunately had journalists about.

 

[zimi...]

however one might want to spin it, this is some fucked-up shit

 

[Ironbutt]

SuperMike:

Trigger happy "mericans"? Video game? What ignorance. Think about the amount of people dying in the middle east on a daily basis, the uncertainties from the fog of war, and how blind it feels to be fighting in someone's backyard. Tell me Mike, can you imagine being in that state of mind and environment, are you really going try and second guess whether it's a RPG/rifle or just a camera?

I found your logics a bit contradicting, it seems to me that you are the one playing a video game; where enemies conveniently appears as a big red dot on your radar. Don't be so quick to simply conform to results, sir.

Now I forgot??? ???? ... what i was gonna post.... BeCause I got high. (whoa woo wooohha) I was gonna ...comment on this video.........but I got high....(DA DA DA DAAAAA) and now I have this really bad song in my head and I know why..(why Chad?)... cause I got high ..cause we got high...... because I got high..

 

[Sidewalk]

If you watch the long video, the helo crews get asked to check out who was shooting about 300 meters away. Half hour later they see guys walking into a building with weapons, and they fired missiles into it. The one guy who can tell is trying to hide the fact that he has a gun by walking real close to a wall, and then holding the gun close to his leg when he makes a turn. Damn good optics on that helo.

Fucked up situation. But damn, the way that guy pointed the "RPG" (camera or real) it would have got my attention. Even with hindsight it is hard to tell if it is a weapon or not.

 

[joseCBR600F4]

the pain of war

Whats sad is that a little girl got hit on her belly and that's not right for children to be wounded in battle.. yeah I know, I know even the children are fighting the war, strap with AK-47's and Bombs but when a child that has nothing to do with it and gets killed by either side terrorist or American Soldiers its just really sad and depressing to see.

"I wish war was never invented but war has been around for thousands and thousands of years the only time when war truly ends is when men (humans) no longer exist in the world." ~Jose Calderon

it sounded so good that i wanted to quot myself lol I hope that quot becomes famous lol =)

 

[Killroy1999]

Holy shit. I thought we were better than that. Shame. What was the point of engaging the van?

 

[Aluisious]

I'm watching it right now. Vid starts with a group of 20 armed with Ak's and Rpg, guy with RPG was about to engage a Heli or a Brad... Heli's get the go to engage...they light them up. They eliminate about 12-15 of the armed Iraqi's. A few minutes later, insurgents van pulls up to pick up a wounded, they light the van up. Later in the vid they discuss a civilian child that had got caught up in the crossfire and needed evac. As the BRAds secure the area they get small arms fire and find 6 insurgents with AK's near their location, they go into an abandoned building and the Heli pilots light it up with 3 Hellfires.

Too bad none of that is in the video.

 

[TheRiddler]

Holy shit. I thought we were better than that. Shame. What was the point of engaging the van?

Honestly, that's the only part of the helicopter crew's actions I disagree with. Even if they were enemy combatants in that van, I didn't see any weapons, and the pilots didn't mention any.

With the RPG thing, it clearly looks like a camera to me. But I've been told it was a camera, and I expected the guy to be holding a camera. If I was an Army pilot who had done multiple sorties, I had probably seen many insurgents holding RPGs and I would be expecting them to be holding RPGs. And I'd much rather take him out fast than risk him getting a shot off at me.

Also of note is that this video is 3 years old. The insurgency was stronger back then.

 

[Cdgskater]

It sucks that journalists got shot...but at 4:05-4:10 or somewhere along those lines when the dude pokes around the corner with something...it does kinda look like a weapon...if I were in the helicopter I would have fired too.

 

[Killroy1999]

Honestly, that's the only part of the helicopter crew's actions I disagree with. Even if they were enemy combatants in that van, I didn't see any weapons, and the pilots didn't mention any.

With the RPG thing, it clearly looks like a camera to me. But I've been told it was a camera, and I expected the guy to be holding a camera. If I was an Army pilot who had done multiple sorties, I had probably seen many insurgents holding RPGs and I would be expecting them to be holding RPGs. And I'd much rather take him out fast than risk him getting a shot off at me.

Also of note is that this video is 3 years old. The insurgency was stronger back then.

Your right, if you want it to be a RPG, it will look like one, if you want it to be a camera, it will look like one.

The Apaches are way out of RPG and AK range and no "friendlys" were in the area, so they should of verified that they were AKs and RPGs.

 

[gnahc79]

Your right, if you want it to be a RPG, it will look like one, if you want it to be a camera, it will look like one.

The Apaches are way out of RPG and AK range and no "friendlys" were in the area, so they should of verified that they were AKs and RPGs.

from the transcript

14:53 Bushmaster or element. Which Element called in Crazyhorse to engage the eight-elem- eight-men team on top of a roof.
15:02 Bushmaster Six; this is Hotel Two-Six. Uh, I believe that was me.
15:07 They uh had AK-47s and were to our east, so, where we were taking small arms fire. Over.
15:20 Hotel Crazyhorse One-Eight.
15:26 Crazyhorse One-Eight; this is Hotel Two-Six.
15:28 Yeah Two-Six. One-Eight I just also wanted to make sure you knew that we had a guy with an RPG cropping round the corner getting ready to fire on your location.
15:36 That's why we ah, requested permission to engage.

 

[richt127]

Your right, if you want it to be a RPG, it will look like one, if you want it to be a camera, it will look like one.

The Apaches are way out of RPG and AK range and no "friendlys" were in the area, so they should of verified that they were AKs and RPGs.

Before pointing out the obvious, think about them being in the situation; Do they really have the sanity, rationality, logics, time, reaction, and whatever else that composes common sense in such an antagonizing environment...to even ask the question whether or not they are in range of the AKs and RPGs?

I don't think even the brighter and more experienced amongst us can process that information given those conditions.

 

[TheRiddler]

Before pointing out the obvious, think about them being in the situation; Do they really have the sanity, rationality, logics, time, reaction, and whatever else that composes common sense in such an antagonizing environment...to even ask the question whether if they are in range of the AKs and RPGs?

I don't think the average human being can really process all that information under the given conditions.

If you don't mind my asking, were you ever in direct combat?

 

[SuperMike]

Wait. Why are Americans flying around in Iraqi skies, shooting at Iraqis?

 

[crank1000]

Wait. Why are Americans flying around in Iraqi skies, shooting at Iraqis?

Freedom.

 

[SuperMike]

Freedom.

Oh, yeah. Wait. Wut?

 

[RhythmRider]

I watched the edited video first and read the commentary. I watched the journalists and saw their cameras. They looked like cameras, not guns. And I was definitely upset knowing they were killed. I watched that video until the end and really believed that no weapons were ever present. Then I read 4tuneit1's comments and rewatched that part of the video with a more careful eye, and upon close review, I did see what looked to be weapons in the video. I definitely saw cameras, but I also saw a long, slender object being carried which very much looked like a loaded RPG. Watch BEFORE the part where the guy is aiming something around the corner. While they're still walking. You'll see a guy with a long object... I think that's more likely to be the actual RPG that was found on-site. And just before the shooting began, I saw what looked to be an AK-47 judging by a shape that looked like a rifle magazine, the length of the object, and the way it was being held against the guy's leg.

I've seen plenty of professional photos of Taliban soldiers and insurgent fighters holding weapons. So there's clearly photographers who hang around these types of guys. I'm thinking these war photographers were there to shoot pictures of guys holding guns and looking mean. Or maybe they went so far as attempting to film a live battle? Who knows. But I think the video is edited to present the story in a very one-sided manner. Even in the full "uncut" version, there's cuts in the video.

I agree with the sentiments that it's just a simply fucked up situation. It's the nature of this war that creates these situations. Armed enemies walking among the civilians... civilian journalists filming the combatants... the whole thing happening in a major city where hundreds of lives are at stake in any given situation... they just add to the chance of shit like this happening.

I wouldn't question our soldiers' training, though. Those guys are on the ground every day and they know the tactics that are being used against them, and they are trained to spot real enemy combatants. I sincerely doubt that the Army has a culture of carelessness in regard to the civilian population. If anything, I'm sure they train just as hard to not shoot civilians as they do anything else.

 

[B-Cuz]

Holy shit. I thought we were better than that. Shame. What was the point of engaging the van?

Guilty by association. Apache crew believed that insurgent combatants were being swept up by fellow combatants, possibly to recover and fight another day.

Wait. Why are Americans flying around in Iraqi skies, shooting at Iraqis?

C'mon Mike, any half-wit military member has long since come to the realization that the Iraq war was/is a fluke, and is a figment of Congressional/Political affairs. I for one was a supporter at the onset...until military operations were sanctioned in late 2004, after Fallujah. After that I realized that it was all bullshit, but I still went; why? Because someone had to.

 

[Killroy1999]

from the transcript

14:53 Bushmaster or element. Which Element called in Crazyhorse to engage the eight-elem- eight-men team on top of a roof.
15:02 Bushmaster Six; this is Hotel Two-Six. Uh, I believe that was me.
15:07 They uh had AK-47s and were to our east, so, where we were taking small arms fire. Over.
15:20 Hotel Crazyhorse One-Eight.
15:26 Crazyhorse One-Eight; this is Hotel Two-Six.
15:28 Yeah Two-Six. One-Eight I just also wanted to make sure you knew that we had a guy with an RPG cropping round the corner getting ready to fire on your location.
15:36 That's why we ah, requested permission to engage.

Didnt that RPG turn out to be a camera? It did not look like a RPG to me.