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Leaked Apache Video

I'm very fortunate that I got out of the military when I did.

I don't think any of us are entitled to an opinion until we've spent day after day in that environment with the stresses building. :2cents

I spent a lot of time in a turret and the scope makes it real easy to distinguish between a camera and a RPG. :2cents

"Rules" in war have always confused the living hell out of me. :2cents
 
RhythmRider said:
I watched the edited video first and read the commentary. I watched the journalists and saw their cameras. They looked like cameras, not guns. And I was definitely upset knowing they were killed. I watched that video until the end and really believed that no weapons were ever present. Then I read 4tuneit1's comments and rewatched that part of the video with a more careful eye, and upon close review, I did see what looked to be weapons in the video. I definitely saw cameras, but I also saw a long, slender object being carried which very much looked like a loaded RPG. Watch BEFORE the part where the guy is aiming something around the corner. While they're still walking. You'll see a guy with a long object... I think that's more likely to be the actual RPG that was found on-site. And just before the shooting began, I saw what looked to be an AK-47 judging by a shape that looked like a rifle magazine, the length of the object, and the way it was being held against the guy's leg.

I've seen plenty of professional photos of Taliban soldiers and insurgent fighters holding weapons. So there's clearly photographers who hang around these types of guys. I'm thinking these war photographers were there to shoot pictures of guys holding guns and looking mean. Or maybe they went so far as attempting to film a live battle? Who knows. But I think the video is edited to present the story in a very one-sided manner. Even in the full "uncut" version, there's cuts in the video.

I agree with the sentiments that it's just a simply fucked up situation. It's the nature of this war that creates these situations. Armed enemies walking among the civilians... civilian journalists filming the combatants... the whole thing happening in a major city where hundreds of lives are at stake in any given situation... they just add to the chance of shit like this happening.

I wouldn't question our soldiers' training, though. Those guys are on the ground every day and they know the tactics that are being used against them, and they are trained to spot real enemy combatants. I sincerely doubt that the Army has a culture of carelessness in regard to the civilian population. If anything, I'm sure they train just as hard to not shoot civilians as they do anything else.
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I can clearly I can see the press guys with the camera's. I do believe the guy crouching around the corner of the building where they remark about the RPG is coincidental, and is a camera guy peeking around to get a picture.

Here's what I found in just one section of the video, it appears around the 3:40-3:50 mark and it involves mainly 2 actors...one guy in a stripe shirt and the guy next to him.

I picked out these frame's (there are more I just used this section) as they show the two insurgents with RPG and Ak that are lingering outside of the main group and attempting to hide the weapons by slinging them along the body. You can see the outline of the RPG swinging around 3:43

My take is that these press guys naively went into a hot CZ that was known for a long time to be hostile, and attracted the insurgents as would happen. They took the risk and got caught in the middle of war where the enemy doesn't wear a uniform and often uses the press, children, and holy places as cover for their activities.

FYI screen caps enlarged only, no PS retouching
 

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4tuneit1 said:
I can clearly I can see the press guys with the camera's. I do believe the guy crouching around the corner of the building where they remark about the RPG is coincidental, and is a camera guy peeking around to get a picture.

Here's what I found in just one section of the video, it appears around the 3:40-3:50 mark and it involves mainly 2 actors...one guy in a stripe shirt and the guy next to him.

I picked out these frame's (there are more I just used this section) as they show the two insurgents with RPG and Ak that are lingering outside of the main group and attempting to hide the weapons by slinging them along the body. You can see the outline of the RPG swinging around 3:43

My take is that these press guys naively went into a hot CZ that was known for a long time to be hostile, and attracted the insurgents as would happen. They took the risk and got caught in the middle of war where the enemy doesn't wear a uniform and often uses the press, children, and holy places as cover for their activities.

FYI screen caps enlarged only, no PS retouching
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3:45 looks like a RPG
 
Killroy1999 said:
Didnt that RPG turn out to be a camera? It did not look like a RPG to me.
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Yes, but that's not the point. Before watching the video you had prior knowledge that journalists were in the group, likely with cameras and other equipment. Actually DURING the video they highlighted the journalists for you. The guys in the Apache had no such information.
 
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It is very easy to criticize from the comfort of your chair, in your own home, outside of a war zone. Especially when fighting pussy enemies who dress up in civilian clothing, hiding among civilians and using them as shields.
 
Cali said:
It is very easy to criticize from the comfort of your chair, in your own home, outside of a war zone. Especially when fighting pussy enemies who dress up in civilian clothing, hiding among civilians and using them as shields.
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+1
 
I'm sure stuff like this has happened since the beginning of time. War sucks.
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It's just only now that we can see things like this from the comfort of our desks with instant replay and slow motion, and look at other facts and information the kid in the helicopter couldn't see.

Was the purpose of this post to solicit opinions on how to resolve the issue, show how governments have hidden facts/lied (once again, since the very first government ever), celebrate the modern low cost of life, or just bash Obama-because in 2007 it was obviously his fault.
 
Cali said:
It is very easy to criticize from the comfort of your chair, in your own home, outside of a war zone. Especially when fighting pussy enemies who dress up in civilian clothing, hiding among civilians and using them as shields.
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+1
 
Why was the bird in the air and circling this group of individuals in the first place?
 
Cali said:
It is very easy to criticize from the comfort of your chair, in your own home, outside of a war zone. Especially when fighting pussy enemies who dress up in civilian clothing, hiding among civilians and using them as shields.
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:applause
 
TylerW said:
I'd have to say the particularly chilling part was the gunner begging for the guy who was crawling to pick up a weapon so he could continue firing on him.
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That showed that the gunner respected rules of engagement?
 
}Dragon{ said:
IIRC they were sent there for a group shooting small arms from a rooftop.
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It doesn't matter why they were there..... they're still in the wrong!! Oh...wait... wrong thread.
 
B-Cuz said:
It's called war.
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Yes, but in war you don't fly a gunship to go investigate every group of suspicious individuals, do you?

Based on the details you see in this video which, when presented in this fashion, is nothing more than a propaganda piece, you could pontificate on this all day. I'm interested in a broader view.
 
TylerW said:
Yes, but in war you don't fly a gunship to go investigate every group of suspicious individuals, do you?.
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Yes. Yes you do.

To put it another way, you don't send the girl scouts to investigate every suspicious persons call do you? No. You send armed police officers.
 
Cali said:
pussy enemies who dress up in civilian clothing, hiding among civilians and using them as shields.
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october13-03.jpg


resistance-group-harmen-visser-vollenhove.jpg

Dutch in civilan clothing, hiding among civilians

63706a.jpg

French in civilan clothing, hiding among civilians
 
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TylerW said:
Yes, but in war you don't fly a gunship to go investigate every group of suspicious individuals, do you?

Based on the details you see in this video which, when presented in this fashion, is nothing more than a propaganda piece, you could pontificate on this all day. I'm interested in a broader view.
Click to expand...

As Rel has pointed out already, yes you do. Everyone in the military has a specific purpose all of which is in direct support of the backbone of the military; the grunt. In this scenario the helo crew was flying a cap mission over a mobile/foot patrol of ground forces. Believe it or not; everyone is suspect. Particularly those wearing military style boots opposed to sandals or loafers.
 
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