sooo, i think this is my longest post ever... sorry about that i get dhiarreah of the fingers when i actually KNOW something relevant
tygaboy said:
Autoclaves are essentially specialized curing ovens. The cool (hot?) part is that with access to something like this, we could use prepreg carbon fiber that is impregnated with a different sort of epoxy - one that needs the elevated temps to cure. You end up using a specific cure cycle and get stronger, lighter parts.
Super fancy, super neato, super expensive...
an autoclave isn't mandatory for prepreg, only the elevated temp, typically that is only about 400F max, and bagging so the material conforms to the shape (I believe you already can do this?). at work all of the CF parts are prepreg and most of them cure in ovens with only vacuum bagging. the nice thing about autoclaves is getting better compaction from a laminate or helping the fibers conform to complex gemoetry such as the recessed mounting screw.
tygaboy said:
It should in that it is the EXACTLY right fabric to epoxy ratio.....
not always, but it is the industry standard for the most part. we use prepreg that is intentionally resin rich so we have to bleed off some during cure. to some extent you get more control over fiber volume, but i'm not convinced it's worth the effort...
EASTcoastRIDAH said:
yeah pre-preg is cool stuff...not only is it stronger and look better but it also increases production rate for factories
the hard part is that not only does it have to be heated but heated under pressure (mechanical or atmospheric) it also can only be bought in large quantities (very expensive) and has to be stored below freezing since it will cure at room temp
prepreg isn't inherently stronger than dry fabric. in fact you could get the EXACT same fiber without the resin in it and with care and practice make a part that is indistinguishable in any way from one made from prepreg. the increased production rate would come from the elevated cure temps accelerating the chemical reactions in the part, not the fact that the material already has resin in it. prepreg can be a real PITA to deal with when it gets tacky, like handling a sticker that is sticky on both sides. a RTM (resin transfer molding) process would be just as fast and not use prepreg
there is no way around the low storage temps and even then it has a finite life span. however even after the material is “out of date” you can still use it, it’ll just be harder to get to conform to a mold as the resin is partially cured.
GearSlammer said:
i was watching an episode of RIDES on TLC where these guys were building show cars for big shows like SEMA and CES. one guy was building a scion tc and used the pre-preg stuff. i honestly thought it would be weaker since it didnt seem like they had too much epoxy.
Resin content affects strength in two ways:
- not enough resin and the plies won’t stick together, making impact resistance an issue as well as the ability to post machine the part (mounting holes, cleaning up edges etc) the laminate will delaminate instead of just behave nicely.
- Too much resin and the part gets heavy, and the actual strength goes down as the effective modulus goes down
ZXR400SP said:
I had a friend doing aerospace work, shuttle stuff, satellites, etc.... He gave a a piece from a layup for a 747 nose that didn't come out quite right. It took me half a dozen jigsaw blades to cut a dash plate for my race tach. It was as hard or harder than steel and stronger too.
this kind of strength has nothing at all to do with an autoclave cure. abrasion resistance is dominated by the fiber used in the layup. as i stated before, you could get the same fiber dry from the manufacturer (though you won't like the price tag)
tygaboy said:
So...let's find someone who is still in the aerospace biz! All we need is access to some of their 'scrap' prepreg and some 'after hours' access to the autoclave! I mean, how big a deal could that be?
And yes, I know I'd have to build all new molds that would stand up to this method. Good thing I save all my plugs!
you know it already, but there isn't much usable scrap in the aerospace biz
![Mad :mad :mad](/forums/data/assets/smilies/a.gif)
or i'd be all over it already....
anyway, if you envelop bag your molds they might do better than you think in an oven/autoclave environment. i wouldn't take them all the way to 140psi or the really agressive cures but they might work with a little modification.
i think you're definitely capable of stepping up to an oven cure with some research, a craigslist oven, and a timer. maybe find one of these nerdy barfers to build a temperature controller for it in exchange for some kind of parts?
one thing to watch out for is the exothermic reaction of the cure process. when you put it in an oven the reaction can actually drive the part temp past ideal cure temps and the control system can't do a damn thing about it, unless you have active cooling too.... there is a reason that autoclaves have an inert atmosphere
![Flaming :flame :flame](/forums/data/assets/smilies/flame.gif)