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My Ninja died - help please?

saizai

saizai

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Location
San Francisco
Moto(s)
Red '98 Ninja EX250
Name
Sai
My Ninja died (AGAIN!) - help please?

'02 Ninja 250, ~6100 mi.

Last night, I was driving from a friend's home to Berkeley campus, mostly downhill. Suddenly, the bike died - while I was riding it.

It happened just after a stoplight, and wasn't instant - more like a very very fast version of the battery dying. Only had ~180 miles on tank; usual reserve is @ 205. Switched it to reserve anyway.

I roll-started it successfully twice down that hill, but it died again.

Roll-started it again, and had it running for about a minute; when I let it rev down to idle (i.e. released throttle), it died.

Roll-started it again, same deal.

Got it to a gas station. Checked all the fluids and fuses - all OK. Oil slightly low, but within normal range.

Got a jump start from a van. Bike started up again fine. I adjusted the idle speed to be ~2krpm, and just let it sit in neutral idling, so as to let the battery charge. About 10 minutes in, it spontaneously died - rpms dipped immediately before.

Disconnected the running lights that I'd installed 2-3 days prior. They had been running fine for those couple days without incident, but I thought that maybe the running light lead - which I was feeding off of the left hand horn wire (the constant-on when in ON one) - might be doing a slow drain of the battery somehow, or overloading the system.

(Other modification I made was to solder in two extra brake lights put in the previously-empty side pods. That was a couple weeks ago, and worked without any issue on a 1300 mi road trip.)

Got another jump start. Bike idled fine for ~15 minutes. Adjusted idle speed again. Decided it looked like it was working, and rode off.

Bike died two blocks away. :-/

I rolled / walked / coasted it to an unregulated-parking area in downtown Berkeley, and parked it there, which is where it's now sitting (I hope).

I have records indicating a battery was bought 6/17/04 @ Interstate Batteries - a YTX7L-BS. Don't know how many miles it had at the time, or whether a new one has been bought since (probably not).

I haven't been having any other electrical or mechanical issues at all.

So, three questions:

1. What is likely to be wrong with the bike, and how can that hypothesis be tested?

2. What can I do to fix it myself - given I have minimal tools (socket set, drill, fuses, etc., but no electrical testers or etc) and mechanical skill?

3. Bids on how much you'd charge me to come fix it?

Thanks!
 
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Absolutely no idea how to do that. Can you describe / is that something I can do w/out a shop?

FWIW, it was raining yesterday, but I got to friend's house just fine, and parked it in his garage for the hour or so I was there. Was still raining when we left.
 
If you get it started again, check the battery voltage @ 3,000 RPM's with a voltmeter. If it isn't putting out at least 14v, then it could be your charging system.

Charge your battery and it may be enough to get it home.

If you had Mo-Tow from AMA, they would have taken your bike home for free.

http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/assist.asp#motow
 
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Dont meant to sound like a smart ass, but did you put gas in it when you were at the gas station? Your mileage range is going to differ with conditions. If your bike runs while on reserve, but not when switched to main, it could be the vacuum line going to the fuel valve, or the valve itself. While the bike is running, you can twist the wiring at handle bars, see if your have a wire grounding out killing your spark. It would be an immediate shut off though, not a drowning one. They are great little bikes, and fairly straight foward. Pull the fairings and look for anything obvious
 
nine_inch_rear said:
If your bike runs while on reserve, but not when switched to main, it could be the vacuum line going to the fuel valve
Click to expand...

With a vacuum operated petcock, both the ON and RES functions require and use the same vacuum line. Unless you have a petcock with the PRIME mode on it, fuel will not flow without the engine running. The EX250 does not have the PRIME mode.
 
nine_inch_rear said:
Dont meant to sound like a smart ass, but did you put gas in it when you were at the gas station?
Click to expand...

No, but I switched it back out of reserve to ON - before the two idling-after-getting-a-jump tests - and it ran fine... er, inasmuch as it ran. I'm pretty sure that reserve vs on, at least, is not the issue.

It would be an immediate shut off though, not a drowning one. They are great little bikes, and fairly straight foward. Pull the fairings and look for anything obvious
Click to expand...

Yeah, none of the deaths were click-off types, just really fast dieoffs.

As I said, I checked all the fluids etc (i.e. removed both side fairings), and while at it looked at the obvious stuff, including fuses. Nothing unusual. If it were a ground-out, I'd expect a fuse to have blown...
 
If you are so low on gas, why not fill it up to see if your symptoms change? There is no good reason to run the tank all the way to empty just because you always get 205 miles on a tank.

I think you'll be kicking yourself in the ass if low fuel was your problem. Don't assume.
 
Enh. I'll fill it up with a tankful when I go to check it out later - I have a gas can in the trunk of my car that I keep a couple gallons in.

I'm pessimistic about that fixing it, but yeah you're right that it's an obvious thing I ought to have done. :p
 
Modified electrical system - improperly installed lights many cause damage to electrical system. Check for shorts. Check charging system, you may have overlaoded the electrical system and fried the stator or reg/rec.

Fuel valve - verify vacuum lines connected and not cracked. Verify operation by opening fuel drain on the bottom of the float bowl. You will need a cup to catch the fuel that drains out. Once the fuel stops flowing close the drain, then crank the bike over a few times, it probably will not start immediatly, open the drain again, if fuel flows the petcock is probably ok.
 
ALANRIDER7 said:
With a vacuum operated petcock, both the ON and RES functions require and use the same vacuum line. Unless you have a petcock with the PRIME mode on it, fuel will not flow without the engine running. The EX250 does not have the PRIME mode.
Click to expand...
:thumbup my bad... i was confusing my katana.. it has a prime mode
 
Got a multimeter, went to my bike, tried to test it.

Got nothing.

Eventually figured the multimeter was borked, started charging it from my car anyway. Would easily jump start, and run perfectly fine when connected to the car, but stalled out soon when disconnected. I added a couple gallons of gas while I was there (with everything disconnected of course).

Went to a different RS, swapped out for a working multimeter of the same type, went back.

Voltage from positive to frame was 11.5V. After charging for a little while from the car, it changed to ~12.3V.

I took out the battery, and it's now sitting next to me, attached to a manual 12V 1A charger (weakest automatic charger I saw was 1.5A). Currently reads 12.05V max between pos and neg terminals.

Back of battery says it should be 12.8V or more normally.

FWIW, the bike starts and runs without any issue whatsoever when it IS hooked up to my car, so that makes me strongly suspect that it is in fact an electrical problem, rather than something with the carbs or whanot.

Also, FWIW, the bike's miscellaneous electrical equipment - lights, horn, instrument lights - have never stopped working, even when the bike was otherwise dead.
 
Until you completely recharge the battery, you will not be able to troubleshoot your problem.

This means a FULL charge using a charger, not jumping it for a few minutes with a car.

The battery is dead, that's why it is dying when you remove the jumper cables.
 
load test the battery. just because it shows 12V doesn't mean it can push 12V, its an amperage thing. for example the batery shows 12.5V, on a voltmeter, but when hooked to the bike and the key is on and the starter button hit the bike doesn't turn over.
to test this put the battery in the bike and hook the voltmeter to it. turn the key on, the battery voltage shouldn't drop more than a full volt. then hit the stater button, it should drop another volt then come right back up when it starts. if the voltage drops to 8 or less the battery is probablly shot and no amount of charging is going to bring it back, the chemical reaction thats going on inside and creating the charge is beginning to end.
 
Update

I charged the battery and took it to the bike.

It read 12.84V when not connected to the bike, across the terminals.

Hooked up the terminals - battery read 12.75V between pos and ground.

Turned bike to ON... voltage dropped to 200 mV? :wow :cry

Turn bike to OFF, voltage goes back up to 12.6V or so. Cycled this back and forth a few times, same numbers. Not enough juice to even make the starter click, let alone turn over the engine.

Forgot to try jump-starting it to see if it'd run off the car battery or not.

I guess my next step is to write off the battery as b0rked and get a new one (unless something else would create that symptom?). Have already ordered replacement LED bulbs so as to drop the wattage draw in case that's the issue.

Any suggestions as to what battery to get?
 
I bot an energizer for about 35$ ...comes with the electrolyte cartrage and everything. No need to have it filled some where. But you will need to charge it after filling it (so the instructions say)
 
(FWIW, my current battery is sealed, and I'd probably prefer that in a new one.)
 
BECAREFUL WHEN GETING A JUNP BECAUSE IF THE GUYS TRUCKI RUNNIG IT CAN MESS UP YOUR ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS BUT OTHER THAN THAT HOPE YOU HAVE A BETTER NIGHT THAN THAT NIGHT
 
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