rothmans
Lowering my expectations
With a nice exhaust or something rediculous like a Tyga Maggot it is probably the closest sounding thing to a MotoGP bike...no exageration...in terms of volume and note.
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NC35 (re)build thread - tis the season for 400cc greybikes
- Thread starter thenewwazoo
- Start date
With a nice exhaust or something rediculous like a Tyga Maggot it is probably the closest sounding thing to a MotoGP bike...no exageration...in terms of volume and note.
ate51
New member
Pretty sure Dave Moss's is an nc35. I race one pretty much identical to his with the 428 with Cosworths. Hope to get to race against he and Dave and those other guys with little weird bikes :0. I have rc51 calipers and they bolt right on. I've got an Over Racing exhaust and the big can is just too quiet. Want to try a maggot as well. Only thing I don't like about those is they are kinda big so I may get a custom version that's shorter. Looks like you'll have a fine machine there. Always wanted one for the street. Keep the updates coming . . . 
Pretty sure Dave Moss's is an nc35. I race one pretty much identical to his with the 428 with Cosworths. Hope to get to race against he and Dave and those other guys with little weird bikes :0. I have rc51 calipers and they bolt right on. I've got an Over Racing exhaust and the big can is just too quiet. Want to try a maggot as well. Only thing I don't like about those is they are kinda big so I may get a custom version that's shorter. Looks like you'll have a fine machine there. Always wanted one for the street. Keep the updates coming . . .
I think I met you before and watched you race at the IWSR Big Track. You have the White NC35 build by Jim right? Awesome bike
Here's pic of Dave's race bike (and Dave in the back ground). Look carefully at the frame especially the engine mounts extending down by where the radiator goes. Then compare that to the frame on my disassembled NC35 on the right. (my garage looks much better now) He does have a 35 engine and wheel but the frame and swing arm is NC30.
Some people prefer the stiffer frame and tighter ergos of the 35 and some people prefer the slightly roomier and more flexible chassis of the 30.
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manusingh
Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2013
- Location
- union city
- Moto(s)
- 07 CBR 600RR, 10 HD Dyna Wide Glide, 05 Honda Shadow 750 (sold), 01 Suzuki 750 Bandit (sold)
- Name
- Manu
Thanks for the post.
Subscribed
Subscribed
thenewwazoo
esculenta delicta
After a long wait, it's time to resume assembly... if there are kids in the room, shield their eyes! This is pure pornography...
Unfortunately, I still need to find a local source for double-length, coarse-thread bleeder banjos. Anyone know of any? I won't be satisfied until I've maximised the dumb.
Unfortunately, I still need to find a local source for double-length, coarse-thread bleeder banjos. Anyone know of any? I won't be satisfied until I've maximised the dumb.
Oldschoolcarbs
New member
A word on carbs. Perhaps two.
As for V4 carbs being finicky they've got a combative personality all right, but only until you get the elegance of the design. All you need are the right tools and three hands. LOL. Seriously though, they look daunting but are in no way so once mastered.
Whenever I hear the word ultrasound I wince. It does nothing to clear very small inner passageways and can in fact drive grit deep into them. There's no substitute for a complete teardown, keeping in mind that the smaller the passage the more attention it needs. http://www.oldschoolcarbs.com/restoration-options/cbx/
There are also difficult to spot differences between internal parts in the forward and rear pairs of carbs, and if they get mixed up you'll have all manner of odd behaviors.
As for float heights, it can be rather trying to get them spot on. But again with the right touch you can have them perfect—which is both literally nonexistent in a set that's just landed on the bench and vital to perfectly balanced fuel delivery.
We revel in the “Aha,” moment around here. A guy thinks his bike is running great because he doesn't have a baseline to compare with. But when the carbs go back on he says “So THIS is what it's supposed to feel like.” Zoom.
Dave's carbs have some significant mods with respect to airflow management inside the plenum and jetting, not of my design by the way but from which I gleaned valuable info for the knowledge base.
We applied some old school techniques to sort a very irritating and stubborn flat spot at around 12k RPM. I like to think it helped in some small way but the lion's share goes to Norman and of course the fact that Dave's got ice water in his veins.
OSC
As for V4 carbs being finicky they've got a combative personality all right, but only until you get the elegance of the design. All you need are the right tools and three hands. LOL. Seriously though, they look daunting but are in no way so once mastered.
Whenever I hear the word ultrasound I wince. It does nothing to clear very small inner passageways and can in fact drive grit deep into them. There's no substitute for a complete teardown, keeping in mind that the smaller the passage the more attention it needs. http://www.oldschoolcarbs.com/restoration-options/cbx/
There are also difficult to spot differences between internal parts in the forward and rear pairs of carbs, and if they get mixed up you'll have all manner of odd behaviors.
As for float heights, it can be rather trying to get them spot on. But again with the right touch you can have them perfect—which is both literally nonexistent in a set that's just landed on the bench and vital to perfectly balanced fuel delivery.
We revel in the “Aha,” moment around here. A guy thinks his bike is running great because he doesn't have a baseline to compare with. But when the carbs go back on he says “So THIS is what it's supposed to feel like.” Zoom.
Dave's carbs have some significant mods with respect to airflow management inside the plenum and jetting, not of my design by the way but from which I gleaned valuable info for the knowledge base.
We applied some old school techniques to sort a very irritating and stubborn flat spot at around 12k RPM. I like to think it helped in some small way but the lion's share goes to Norman and of course the fact that Dave's got ice water in his veins.
OSC
thenewwazoo
esculenta delicta
OSC, it's good you spoke up, as now I know you're around. I might just call upon you in the near future. My eventual plans involve fuel injection of my own design but there are a lot of street and track miles between here and there.
I might just call upon you in the near future. My eventual plans involve fuel injection of my own design but there are a lot of street and track miles between here and there.
thenewwazoo
esculenta delicta
I've been slacking on posting, sorry. I've been working on the bike in dribs and drabs, and it's actually pretty close to being rideable. I had actually hoped to get it roadworthy in time to make a surprise appearance in the Laguna Seca parking lot, but alas, it wasn't to be.
I'll post something tomorrow, I promise.
I'll post something tomorrow, I promise.
weasel
Eradicator
I'll admit, I wasn't terribly sold on the looks at first. As stock, the NC35 has the really iconic HRC livery that makes people in-the-know do a total double-take, especially with the "fox-eye" headlights.
Was that you I saw on my commute home on Wednesday. 280 South where the HOV lane kicks in?
Gave you a
and a tip of the hat. The RVF had one left bar end mirror.
thenewwazoo
esculenta delicta
Was that you I saw on my commute home on Wednesday. 280 South where the HOV lane kicks in?
Gave you a
The RVF had one left bar end mirror.
Newp, unless someone "borrowed" it from Moto Shop, which I doubt. Mine doesn't look like that one, either - the quoted picture is of stock livery. The RC45 looks very similar, as well, so it might have been one of those (which are quite a bit more common).
weasel
Eradicator
There's a few on here. I just saw RWC and thought it might have been you.
Nice enough rider, I was follow him at a distance while splitting (out of respect) and when we hit the HOV lane he waived me by. That never happens.
Well
anyway
Nice enough rider, I was follow him at a distance while splitting (out of respect) and when we hit the HOV lane he waived me by. That never happens.
Well
anyway
thenewwazoo
esculenta delicta
It's been way too long. Sorry for not updating regularly. I've been traveling lately... in fact, this was the view out of my apartment just a short week ago...
Yeah, it reminds you of that one show on HBO for a good reason.
So as a result, I've only been able to work on the RVF in short bursts, but progress has been made!
First, a shout-out - I decided that I needed a double-length banjo bolt to use on the new master cylinder back in June. After striking out at Santa Clara Cycles, I put a call into OPP Racing down in Sand City (Monterey area) on a Friday, since they listed an aluminium part on their website. Alas, they didn't have any in stock, but they put me in touch with TAW Performance up in Sonoma, right near Sears Point. Nicole fielded my call like a champ, and was a spectacular help. I really quite desperately wanted to have the part in order to build my brake system that weekend, and she hunted one down in their warehouse for me. Since TAW doesn't actually do retail sales, she sent it downstairs to BRITS. Two hours of slab riding later, I had the part in hand and was ready to head to Moto Shop and commence the great enbrakening.
In fact, it was more like the great encontrollening. The stock controls on the NC35 were pretty beat up, and I'm not a huge fan of pink levers (no kidding), so I bought a CBR1000RR radial master cylinder, a CBR600RR clutch perch, and matching CRG levers (maximise the wallet damage!). I've also never been so excited about a bike, nor had a reason to modify it beyond small touring farkles, so this is kind of my excuse to treat myself. They all went on without a hitch, despite me forgetting to bench bleed the master cylinder.
The brakes feel... different. The combination of the CBR master and Brembo calipers has a soft, progressive feel. In motion, they don't feel spongey at all.
Also in that big table of parts above were various rubber bits. Old rubber likes to turn to plastic, so I had to order a clutch of intake boots from CMSNL, in the Netherlands. I'm starting to get pretty good at getting the carbs off...
Let me tell you a thing: pushing carbs into brand new carb boots feels like ... well, it feels as good as you imagine.
Once that was done, it was time to see if it started and ran any better than it did the first time, when it had so many crazy intake leaks...
[youtube]JnKWPNQ1sZE[/youtube]
Yup.
Yeah, it reminds you of that one show on HBO for a good reason.
So as a result, I've only been able to work on the RVF in short bursts, but progress has been made!
First, a shout-out - I decided that I needed a double-length banjo bolt to use on the new master cylinder back in June. After striking out at Santa Clara Cycles, I put a call into OPP Racing down in Sand City (Monterey area) on a Friday, since they listed an aluminium part on their website. Alas, they didn't have any in stock, but they put me in touch with TAW Performance up in Sonoma, right near Sears Point. Nicole fielded my call like a champ, and was a spectacular help. I really quite desperately wanted to have the part in order to build my brake system that weekend, and she hunted one down in their warehouse for me. Since TAW doesn't actually do retail sales, she sent it downstairs to BRITS. Two hours of slab riding later, I had the part in hand and was ready to head to Moto Shop and commence the great enbrakening.
In fact, it was more like the great encontrollening. The stock controls on the NC35 were pretty beat up, and I'm not a huge fan of pink levers (no kidding), so I bought a CBR1000RR radial master cylinder, a CBR600RR clutch perch, and matching CRG levers (maximise the wallet damage!). I've also never been so excited about a bike, nor had a reason to modify it beyond small touring farkles, so this is kind of my excuse to treat myself. They all went on without a hitch, despite me forgetting to bench bleed the master cylinder.
The brakes feel... different. The combination of the CBR master and Brembo calipers has a soft, progressive feel. In motion, they don't feel spongey at all.
Also in that big table of parts above were various rubber bits. Old rubber likes to turn to plastic, so I had to order a clutch of intake boots from CMSNL, in the Netherlands. I'm starting to get pretty good at getting the carbs off...
Let me tell you a thing: pushing carbs into brand new carb boots feels like ... well, it feels as good as you imagine.
Once that was done, it was time to see if it started and ran any better than it did the first time, when it had so many crazy intake leaks...[youtube]JnKWPNQ1sZE[/youtube]
Yup.
SpeedyCorky
rides minibikes;U should2
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2003
- Location
- East Bay Area
- Moto(s)
- are clearly addicting; so you see - it's really not my fault...
- Name
- key-tay
!!!!!!!!!! congrats!!!!
great progresso!
once its fully road worthy we MUST setup a 400cc ride!!!!! how exactly cool would that be!? give plenty of notice (like at least a month), and i'll bet we can get at least 3 or 5 400cc grey market bikes together ......
great progresso!
once its fully road worthy we MUST setup a 400cc ride!!!!! how exactly cool would that be!? give plenty of notice (like at least a month), and i'll bet we can get at least 3 or 5 400cc grey market bikes together ......
thenewwazoo
esculenta delicta
Okay, so the previous post brings us up to early June. The bike runs satisfactorily, and I'm happy enough with the fueling under free revs.
My ethic for working on the bike has been a sort of phased approach, that goes like this:
Rusty tanks, intake boots, jets, etc - that was all to make it run, with diversions to keep me interested, but now it's time to try to make the thing rideable. The fork seals were leaking pretty bad and the front end was super soft, so I called Rob down at Evolution Motorcycles (formerly Evolution Suspension) to see what my options were. We talked about my goals, and he said he thought I could get good results out of re-valving the stock pistons, instead of just going straight for Race Tech Gold Valves. And of course, if I wasn't happy, nothing was irreversible.
It's not much to look at, but that sticker adds at least 5 horsepower.
Also, the stick triples were pretty grody. After pulling the fork legs, I went ahead and pulled the steering stem, and took the parts to Precision Powder Coating in Belmont. Talk about an old-school operation! It's exactly what I wanted, and they're clearly used to people walking in with motorcycle parts, which is comforting. I didn't even have to try to explain which surfaces needed to be kept clean. So after getting back from Turkey...
I hurried over, picked up my parts, and put it all back together...
Yum! I guess it's time to start putting pieces back together, no?
My ethic for working on the bike has been a sort of phased approach, that goes like this:
- Running
- Rideable
- Roadworthy
Rusty tanks, intake boots, jets, etc - that was all to make it run, with diversions to keep me interested, but now it's time to try to make the thing rideable. The fork seals were leaking pretty bad and the front end was super soft, so I called Rob down at Evolution Motorcycles (formerly Evolution Suspension) to see what my options were. We talked about my goals, and he said he thought I could get good results out of re-valving the stock pistons, instead of just going straight for Race Tech Gold Valves. And of course, if I wasn't happy, nothing was irreversible.
It's not much to look at, but that sticker adds at least 5 horsepower.
Also, the stick triples were pretty grody. After pulling the fork legs, I went ahead and pulled the steering stem, and took the parts to Precision Powder Coating in Belmont. Talk about an old-school operation! It's exactly what I wanted, and they're clearly used to people walking in with motorcycle parts, which is comforting. I didn't even have to try to explain which surfaces needed to be kept clean. So after getting back from Turkey...
I hurried over, picked up my parts, and put it all back together...
Yum! I guess it's time to start putting pieces back together, no?
thenewwazoo
esculenta delicta
So I've proven it runs, and it's starting to get buttoned back up, and I've installed a (very trick, omgwtfbbq light) Shorai LiPoly battery, and it actually looks like a proper motorcycle and not just a pile of parts... I guess now it's time to bring my wife to Moto Shop and start it up for the inaugural ride, right?
Hah!
Fuck you, Murphy.
Of course, I bring my wife to Moto Shop to show it off, and it won't run, due to sitting for several weeks. Of course. So I fiddle, and fiddle, and fiddle, and she leaves, and I get annoyed, and then... it lives! Of course, by that time she'd left with my gear (I was going to take the train), so obviously riding it would have to wait. ...but it's running! ...but I don't have gear! ...but it's running! ... ...but I don't have any gear!!!
What's that you say, Joe? You wear a size S Shoei?
Hah!
Fuck you, Murphy.
Of course, I bring my wife to Moto Shop to show it off, and it won't run, due to sitting for several weeks. Of course. So I fiddle, and fiddle, and fiddle, and she leaves, and I get annoyed, and then... it lives! Of course, by that time she'd left with my gear (I was going to take the train), so obviously riding it would have to wait. ...but it's running! ...but I don't have gear! ...but it's running! ... ...but I don't have any gear!!!
What's that you say, Joe? You wear a size S Shoei?
thenewwazoo
esculenta delicta
Well, that was a productive couple of weekends.
My wife was busy last weekend, and is gone this weekend, so I've gotten to put in some quality time with the RVFlette. The picture that Scott posted up a bit ago was of my first order from Graeme France over in the UK. Graeme has taken great care of us (Scott ordered a clutch of parts, too). Of all the parts I ordered, the most important is a wiring harness. The one on the bike was hacked all to shit, and there was no way I would be able to live with it. I also got a few other choice bits.
Last weekend, I tackled the brakes. The rear brakes had never really gotten any love from me. I did bleed them when I was doing the fronts, but I never pulled everything off and scrubbed like the bike deserves. I ordered a braided steel brake line and and HRC race brake reservoir tube (because racebike) from Graeme, so I figured it'd be a nice one-shot to install. Simple self-contained projects like that are great because they keep the motivation high. I don't have to find good stopping points or plan my work, and the effort levels is low; I just walk in, throw some parts on, and then take pictures (obviously).
Side note, I've probably spent 1/2 of the total time on this bike standing in front of the parts washer, scrubbing things nobody else will ever see. The rear brake caliper is a good example - it's buried on the bottom side of the wheel, up under the swingarm and nearly invisible at every angle. And yet I still pulled it off, scrubbed it shiny, wire-brushed all the bolts, and put it back.
Anyway, the entire brake system is now in a state that makes me happy... almost. I did struggle a little bit with the rear brake routing. You see, it's pretty common for people to actually drill a small hole in the swingarm and route the hose through it. Then you remove the chain guard. The result is pretty striking, actually - there's nothing but a wheel and a chain hanging out in space. I really want to do it, but I didn't want to try with the swingarm on the bike... so I ordered another swingarm. That's going to have to wait, though... too much else to do.
Also on the list was clipons. Why? Well, it's a bit hard to see, but it's really easy to feel...
I really, really wanted to find some stock pieces. I like the RVF's ergonomics. It's sporty but not punishing, and I really wanted to preserve that, but short of paying $211 each
, I was going to have to go with aftermarket. Graeme recommended some British-made SES clipons. To be honest, I'm still not totally sold on them - I may end up replacing them with some Woodcraft 1" rise bars. Stock rise is about half an inch, but given how tight the clearance between the controls and the fairing already is, I figured it'd be safer to lower the bar a bit.
They're very high-quality pieces, that's for sure. The machining is really good, and they're super lightweight, which makes me happy. So, no complaints for now. We'll see if my back agrees when I try to take an extended ride up to Comptche-Ukiah, or out to the junction.
So, clipon swap. Easy, right? Er, no.
Seems like every damn time I want to do any damn thing to this damn bike, I have to take every damn thing apart. Pulling the clipons required pulling the top triple, which of course means that the lower triple flexed enough that I couldn't get the top triple back on, which means I had to pull the wheel, which means I had to pull the calipers, all so I could loosen the lower triple clamp bolts enough to slip the top triple back on. I guess that's why it's a project, right?
Installation is the reverse of removal, and installation is fun because... mmm tasty.
Okay, so in all fairness, I did already have the tank and the tail plastics off because I had just finished swapping the wiring harness. It was actually not as hard a job as I expected. The undertail plastic is hacked to shit and all busted up, which changing the harness made obvious (so that's one more thing to order from the UK) but it otherwise went pretty smoothly. The bike has obviously had a pretty hard life - the generator/stator wiring was cut, the ignition wires were cut, and the left side switchgear pretty clearly has some sort of issues, but everything else was in acceptable condition. Mostly, it makes me incredibly happy for every wire to be in its right place, and wrapped by the factory.
If you'll recall this picture from May...
This is roughly the same shot from today (please excuse the lighting)...
Could I have built my own harness that would be even better than Honda's? Of course. I've done it. And it cost hundreds in wire and plugs and hours and hours of reading data sheets and construction. This lets me hit all my OCD relief buttons and I don't have to DIY. Yes please.
I also did some other, minor things. The carbs hadn't been synced, so I did that to much improvement. I'm still not totally happy with how the bike runs, but I suspect needles and springs will fix that. Or maybe not. I've got to schedule some dyno time, come to think of it... I also fixed the radiator fan, though it'll have to have a manual switch for a while until I get some new radiators to replace the horrible, shit Chinese eBay specials I have now.
Holy shit, wait, if the wiring harness is done, and it's
tested and working , and the carbs are sync'd, I guess it's time to button it up in earnest. This is the first time the bike has had its lower fairing on in months...
My wife was busy last weekend, and is gone this weekend, so I've gotten to put in some quality time with the RVFlette. The picture that Scott posted up a bit ago was of my first order from Graeme France over in the UK. Graeme has taken great care of us (Scott ordered a clutch of parts, too). Of all the parts I ordered, the most important is a wiring harness. The one on the bike was hacked all to shit, and there was no way I would be able to live with it. I also got a few other choice bits.
Last weekend, I tackled the brakes. The rear brakes had never really gotten any love from me. I did bleed them when I was doing the fronts, but I never pulled everything off and scrubbed like the bike deserves. I ordered a braided steel brake line and and HRC race brake reservoir tube (because racebike) from Graeme, so I figured it'd be a nice one-shot to install. Simple self-contained projects like that are great because they keep the motivation high. I don't have to find good stopping points or plan my work, and the effort levels is low; I just walk in, throw some parts on, and then take pictures (obviously).
Side note, I've probably spent 1/2 of the total time on this bike standing in front of the parts washer, scrubbing things nobody else will ever see. The rear brake caliper is a good example - it's buried on the bottom side of the wheel, up under the swingarm and nearly invisible at every angle. And yet I still pulled it off, scrubbed it shiny, wire-brushed all the bolts, and put it back.
Anyway, the entire brake system is now in a state that makes me happy... almost. I did struggle a little bit with the rear brake routing. You see, it's pretty common for people to actually drill a small hole in the swingarm and route the hose through it. Then you remove the chain guard. The result is pretty striking, actually - there's nothing but a wheel and a chain hanging out in space. I really want to do it, but I didn't want to try with the swingarm on the bike... so I ordered another swingarm.
That's going to have to wait, though... too much else to do.Also on the list was clipons. Why? Well, it's a bit hard to see, but it's really easy to feel...
I really, really wanted to find some stock pieces. I like the RVF's ergonomics. It's sporty but not punishing, and I really wanted to preserve that, but short of paying $211 each
, I was going to have to go with aftermarket. Graeme recommended some British-made SES clipons. To be honest, I'm still not totally sold on them - I may end up replacing them with some Woodcraft 1" rise bars. Stock rise is about half an inch, but given how tight the clearance between the controls and the fairing already is, I figured it'd be safer to lower the bar a bit.
They're very high-quality pieces, that's for sure. The machining is really good, and they're super lightweight, which makes me happy. So, no complaints for now. We'll see if my back agrees when I try to take an extended ride up to Comptche-Ukiah, or out to the junction.
So, clipon swap. Easy, right? Er, no.
Seems like every damn time I want to do any damn thing to this damn bike, I have to take every damn thing apart. Pulling the clipons required pulling the top triple, which of course means that the lower triple flexed enough that I couldn't get the top triple back on, which means I had to pull the wheel, which means I had to pull the calipers, all so I could loosen the lower triple clamp bolts enough to slip the top triple back on. I guess that's why it's a project, right?
Installation is the reverse of removal, and installation is fun because... mmm tasty.
Okay, so in all fairness, I did already have the tank and the tail plastics off because I had just finished swapping the wiring harness. It was actually not as hard a job as I expected. The undertail plastic is hacked to shit and all busted up, which changing the harness made obvious (so that's one more thing to order from the UK) but it otherwise went pretty smoothly. The bike has obviously had a pretty hard life - the generator/stator wiring was cut, the ignition wires were cut, and the left side switchgear pretty clearly has some sort of issues, but everything else was in acceptable condition. Mostly, it makes me incredibly happy for every wire to be in its right place, and wrapped by the factory.
If you'll recall this picture from May...
This is roughly the same shot from today (please excuse the lighting)...
Could I have built my own harness that would be even better than Honda's? Of course. I've done it. And it cost hundreds in wire and plugs and hours and hours of reading data sheets and construction. This lets me hit all my OCD relief buttons and I don't have to DIY. Yes please.
I also did some other, minor things. The carbs hadn't been synced, so I did that to much improvement. I'm still not totally happy with how the bike runs, but I suspect needles and springs will fix that. Or maybe not. I've got to schedule some dyno time, come to think of it... I also fixed the radiator fan, though it'll have to have a manual switch for a while until I get some new radiators to replace the horrible, shit Chinese eBay specials I have now.
Holy shit, wait, if the wiring harness is done, and it's
tested and working , and the carbs are sync'd, I guess it's time to button it up in earnest. This is the first time the bike has had its lower fairing on in months...
Last edited: