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New 250 Ninja, disappointing

Holeshot said:
When I'm 90 and on my deathbed, maybe I'll put some balls in my face for the coup De grais....but not until then! It's no different on a 250 prod bike. Just as soon as I get those balls out of my face, I'll mount up!

From what I see above, nobody can say you "ain't got balls" Berto! :laughing You've got a good sense of humor, which is all cool. :thumbup

Holeshot said:
... but don't be so delusional as to think Kawi updated their bike to win AFM 250 production.

Totally agree on Kawasaki's objectives on the updated Ninja 250. As I'd already stated, and is easy to understand for anyone in the world of business, the entire company's focus was building a bike that "would sell", and in big numbers. A good objective when coming out with a new or updated product, I'd say?

The combination of keeping the price in the affordable range, making aesthetic improvements that none can deny are hugely positive (over the previouus 20 year old design), and adding some granted modest ...... but definitely value-adding .... performance enhancing items, will certainly result in a "win-win" for the company and the motorcycle community at large.

Will it breath new life in the 250P class with the AFM? Don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be suprised if it does pump up the numbers during the next two years. Time will tell, of course.
 
Holeshot said:
considering the leader of the 600 races completes the race in under 1/2 the time of the 250 prod leaders, there's some fudge time in there...
Humm ....:confused

Math 101: (T-Hill)

600P:
- 6 x 1:53 (113 seconds) = 678 sec.

250P:
- 6 x 2:12 (132 seconds) = 792 sec.

---------------------------------------------------------------

678/792 = 600P finishes race in 86% of the time of 250P
- (not even close to 50%)

Gotta check the batteries in that calculator Berto. :laughing It's all in fun .......
 
race version should have "ninja" replaced with "generator".
I bet you would see shit load of them at tracks used for warmers.
Kawi totally missed it with marketing.
 
PantyBuncher said:
DON'T YOU GET IT ? IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A RACE BIKE !

geez, how hard is that to figure out !

if they designed a race-able 250, it would cost more, they would sell less --> kawi wouldn't make the money. do you need 320mm brakes on an ex250 ? those guys don't even brake for T1 at TH.

>would be at a serious disadvantage over pre 06 blah blah blah

who the F cares ? even the proponents of the 250 class are saying it's an entry level class, the rest are saying it should be dumped. so, is there something that can't be learned on an 06 that can be learned on an 05 ? gary is the only guy who hasn't figured out that it's an entry level class.


and yeah, the bike is just as ghey as it was when originally produced. seriously, it seems that some of you aren't thinking at all.

Relax. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.

:laughing
 
Re: OK I'll bite

kneedrag said:
Where may I ask have you read a better frame or better HP? Insider info or you reading deeper than I am?

One of the Euro sites said something about revised frame and mo' power, I can't recall which site though. Something about 45 at the crank, which is what, 35 at the wheel? Hard to tell in such a tiny motor, the perceptions are thrown off since it doesn't have much power to begin with....a two-hp increase could be an increase of around 20% mo' power. :laughing

The old EX250 was not designed for racing, nor is the new EX250 designed for racing. They're just non-race replica streetbikes that some people may choose to race (remember all those AMA 600 Supersport races won by a stinkin' Katana 600 back in the day?).

But the fact remains the new 250 has bigger forks (1mm larger), 17-inch wheels (just get the takeoff front tire from Berto's racebike and use it as the rear tire on the 250), better brakes, and well, it *looks* faster than the old Ronald Reagan 250.
 
Gary J said:

Gotta check the batteries in that calculator Berto. :laughing It's all in fun .......

Totally Gary...and I did it like 5X getting a different answer 3X...kinda sad. Now I've got go back and check all the projection numbers on an apt. complex we're looking at in Alameda....

I like the redesign actually, from a looks perspective, but looks don't get the bike to the top step....anyway gary, let's do a 250prod in the 4 hour whore next year! Then Jim can stay off my back already!!!
 
Ducky_Fresh said:
I think it could make for a really fun spec class. :)

STFU with the damn "spec class" already!! :laughing :laughing You can't get decent racing tires for these poor bikes, why doesn't Kawi give the poor bike a 4.5" rear wheel and let it use the "good stuff". Anyone interested in racing one of these bikes on touring tires?? That's pretty much what it comes down to because the new bike is subject to the "new Prod rules" and you can't mess around with wheels (sorry Kosman) and all the other stuff the old Ninjettes got away with. Sorry, I think Kawi got close to releasing a great little bike, but they missed the mark by just cutting a few corners.
 
Actually, the bridgstone still makes a 130 rear in the 090, plenty of tire for the little ninja. Or you could run a front on the rear, lots of people are doing that today with the weld ups. Let's see the rest of the TBD's, this may still be a decent addition to the 250P grid, you never know.

Craig

afmotorsports said:
STFU with the damn "spec class" already!! :laughing :laughing You can't get decent racing tires for these poor bikes, why doesn't Kawi give the poor bike a 4.5" rear wheel and let it use the "good stuff". Anyone interested in racing one of these bikes on touring tires?? That's pretty much what it comes down to because the new bike is subject to the "new Prod rules" and you can't mess around with wheels (sorry Kosman) and all the other stuff the old Ninjettes got away with. Sorry, I think Kawi got close to releasing a great little bike, but they missed the mark by just cutting a few corners.
 
After watching this thread and the one at the 250 prod group on Yahoo rage all day figured I might chime in.

A little back ground. I have ridden on and off for about 10 years and finally have a small bit of disposable income that I would like to spend on motorcycles, learning how to go fast, and possibly race for next season.

I just bought a 2000 EX250 and definitely consider buying the new one and using it instead for the 250 production class.

With all the guffawing about, well its not a full production "take the plate off and race it", it suits alot of purposes still.

After hitting Thunderhill this Monday, I was able to pass quite a few people on much bigger shinier bikes. I think for a couple reasons.

1.) I was never afraid to get on the gas, I knew the bike wasn't going to throw me off like a bigger one.

2.) Never had to brake that hard, I figured out that it was all about corner speed to try and fend people off the straights.

3.) The little bike is very comfortable I rode all day without really noticing it. Not something I cannot say for my 749.

At the end of the day the bike instilled alot of confidence and let me focus on my riding as opposed to fear of extreme speeds. I got on the throttle sooner, braked less, and worked on corner speed, all great skills that would carry to a larger class.

Things that weren't so great, 16" Rims, no modern rubber for my bike from the local Dunlop vendor :-(

All the advantage I had built up in the corners as other new riders were scared of opening their throttles was evaporated in the straights and the found their confidence in a nice straight line.

So what of the new bike?

Well to start its frickin' cheap compared to your next closest entry bike. Lots more money for tires, gas, replacement lever and clip-ons and glass body-work

It has 17" wheels, hey I don't have to spend $1000 on a now outdated bike if I buy the new one.

Better mid-range and low end ~45 horsepower, even if it ends up as 33 - 36 RWP , thats still competitive and I wouldn't have to spend at least 2k and lots of time to do it from the old engine. Fresh from the box its ready to go. New valve-train with less moving parts to wear. Plus a 2-1 exhaust for less weight.

Updated forks and new Double semi-cradle frame. Given that the current frame is basically a back-bone frame, they have had to do some massive redisgn. All the haters at this point say yeah but its steel! Well steel repairs a hell of alot easier than cast aluminum, and keeps the cost down. The swing arm looks to have been made beefier. Also bigger rotors which would be less likely to warp.

The suspension, more could have been done here , but there are 1mm larger forks and as I read some where now there is at least preload adjustment for the rear shock. Not earthshaking but hey its better that before.

Appearance, yeah it looks better, but it also has better aerodynamics, and a windscreen that you can tuck behind.

Yes I am sure Kawasaki cleaned some of the parts bins with this bike, but since the 20 years it has been around the parts bin has gotten much better.

All in all this will be a great little bike to hit the track and probably a stellar bike for the streets with a couple things that the old Ninjas cannot upgrade such as an updated frame and bigger forks and a more reliable valve train. Watching the HP numbers creep up over the years I see no reason why this bike wouldn't be competitive.
 
FZ1Craig said:
Actually, the bridgstone still makes a 130 rear in the 090, plenty of tire for the little ninja. Or you could run a front on the rear, lots of people are doing that today with the weld ups. Let's see the rest of the TBD's, this may still be a decent addition to the 250P grid, you never know.

Craig

Or just put a 120 front tire in back. That was the main setup for the class for years and worked very well (IIRC the buttonwillow 250p lap record was done on that setup).
 
keynesiandream said:
After hitting Thunderhill this Monday, I was able to pass quite a few people on much bigger shinier bikes. I think for a couple reasons.

So you can pass inexperienced track day riders on a Ninja 250. How does that make the new bike better?
 
It makes it better because its more of the same formula. An easily controllable bike with better parts.

That creates a low barrier to entering the track scene which makes for better riders on and off track.

At the end of the day I think Kawasaki took the approach of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Who else makes nice 250 in the US, they just refined a good design, at a great price.

P.S. That was my second track day ever, and first at Thunderhill. :)
 
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keynesiandream said:
It makes it better because its more of the same formula. An easily controllable bike with better parts.

Are they better? The top 250's are already running 17's, so that's a moot point. They have G-Force engines, so can the "retuned" engine really compete?
 
Dude,

Those 17" wheels cost a grand!

And then you have an engine that costs another 2 grand minimum, you are already 3 grand in and you have only acheived the same level that the new bike is at, sans whatever improvements the new one has such as bigger brakes and improved frame, that you can't do to the old one.

Economically the new bike is a good deal.
 
I would love to see Andy's "Grudge Match" races. Le Mans starts are fun to do, and watch. And since it's not your bike...who cares! Rail the snot out of it.
 
eeeeek said:
So you can pass inexperienced track day riders on a Ninja 250. How does that make the new bike better?

keynesiandream, I grew-up with small displacement bikes. I have actually had a hard time adjusting to riding a liter bike on the track. It requires a different technique. I may have actually let you go by me on a track day with your 250. But, if we were racing, you ain't see much of me but my tailpipe as I disappear.
 
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