New Kawasaki Ninja 400

[Marcoose]

More bikes means they will fill every possible niche.

There was a thread in General a few weeks back saying Honda* was hurting, and it seems they have 74* models to keep track of, update, upgrade, market, provide warranty, etc. Too many is too many, IMHO.

(* something like that)

 

[mrzuzzo]

The Ninja 300 is slow and heavy; this does seem like a good step. Interesting that they're replacing the 300 just as that WSS class is getting going...

The 650 still has more power and a better power:weight ratio, but a quick light bike is always fun. We'll see if this fits the bill.

I wouldn't say a 300 is heavy. Compared to what?

650 is better power:weight, but overall a pretty bad motorcycle. Handling sucks, it's still a parts bin bike.

400 is the absolute sweet spot.

Looking forward to the ADV version of this bike as well. 400cc Versys..

 

[Gary856]

Warmer, but make it a 500 and be done.

 

[Map8]

Why would it need 2 rotors?

Supermotos that make more power than this have no problems with brakes, with one rotor.

Supermotos weigh half as much as this thing will.

 

[kurth83]

The new 400's with FI and multiple valves/cyl are worlds ahead of what a 400 was a few decades back.

48 HP is the L1 license limit in UK yes?

Betting this size (45 HP) is chosen for that.

My 500 twin has similar HP, same reason AFAIK.

Loving the trend that new bikes are getting lighter and more powerful.

 

[banshee01]

Now they just need to make it a z400 and I would get one. Upgrade the suspension and I bet it is a really awesome bike

 

[Blankpage]

The new 400's with FI and multiple valves/cyl are worlds ahead of what a 400 was a few decades back.

New 400's a likely worlds ahead of any bike of any displacement from 3 decades ago.

 

[Marcoose]

Betting this size (45 HP) is chosen for that.

Nothing that a Bazzaz can't fix.

 

[nebulous]

1986 FZR 400 had 59hp, just saying...

New 400's a likely worlds ahead of any bike of any displacement from 3 decades ago.

 

[Burg-Mann]

Uhhhh. Ninja 650 is heavy and slow??? Get the rpms up in the canyons and there are very few 600s that would keep up with it (no less a racetrack-depending on the track). Don't ask me how I know. Also had a ninja 300. Kinda sucked on the freeway (revved to high at anything over 70 mph) but, had a blast on mines road and berryessa rides and I weigh 260. The new 400 should be awesome!!!!

 

[sckego]

The 300 comes with ABS and one rotor.



What is the purpose of the second rotor on such a light bike?

Supermotos weigh half as much as this thing will.

It's far more to do with speed than weight.

Energy that needs to be dissipated is mass*deltaV^2 / 2.

A 400lb (180kg) bike that hits 135 mph (60m/s) before braking into a 55 mph (25 m/s) corner needs to dissipate 180 * (60-25)^2 / 2 = 110 kJ.

A bike of the same weight that hits only 100mph (45 m/s) only has to dissipate 180 * (45-25)^2 / 2 = 36 kJ.

Even if the faster bike were much lighter - say, 300lb (136kg) instead of 400lb - it would still have to dissipate 136 * (60-25)^2 / 2 = 83 kJ. Still more than twice as much as a much heavier bike that goes slower.

Brake capability is far more dependent on speed than weight.


Edit: hurt durr, should be mass * (V initial ^2 - V final ^2) /2, not Delta V^2. So the difference is not as drastic as my wrong math shows, but the point still holds.

 

[Map8]

1986 FZR 400 had 59hp, just saying...

My stock '89 FZR400 (same as the '86 model in Japan) made 52hp on the dyno at Factory Pro in San Rafael. It was really peaky with almost nothing happening below 10,000 rpm and no torque to speak of. I had a Bandit 400 (which I believe I sold to one of the posters in this thread) and it wasn't as peaky but it didn't have any torque either. Those bikes were fun at WFO. The FZR400 was ridiculous fun for AFM racing but that same power delivery got old quickly on the street. I'd guess this new Ninja 400 parallel twin is probably a much better street engine.

 

[Map8]

It's far more to do with speed than weight.

Energy that needs to be dissipated is mass*deltaV^2 / 2.

A 400lb (180kg) bike that hits 135 mph (60m/s) before braking into a 55 mph (25 m/s) corner needs to dissipate 180 * (60-25)^2 / 2 = 110 kJ.

A bike of the same weight that hits only 100mph (45 m/s) only has to dissipate 180 * (45-25)^2 / 2 = 36 kJ.

Even if the faster bike were much lighter - say, 300lb (136kg) instead of 400lb - it would still have to dissipate 136 * (60-25)^2 / 2 = 83 kJ. Still more than twice as much as a much heavier bike that goes slower.

Brake capability is far more dependent on speed than weight.

Where were you when I was struggling to explain why cruisers often stop as well as sportbikes?

Thanks for the post.

 

[Schnellbandit]

On sale now:

Ninja 250s....$19.95
Ninja 300s....$29.95

Ninja 400s....$5995.00

Ninja 450s....TBA

Good to see weight reductions and maybe a line to cross for everyone else, especially on larger engined bikes of the non-sport bike type.

A 400 makes sense, longer legs for easier freeway commutes, more oomph to carry a passenger once in a while.

As for all the braking equations, all the brakes in the world don't matter if the tires can't match them, the suspension is overloaded, the rider doesn't remember to use them and maximum braking is applied during the last 10 feet on a painted white line.

 

[Map8]

[youtube]i4SGc04THco[/youtube]

 

[stangmx13]

IMO all these low cost bikes are the new arms race. the OEMs are building cheap bikes, then slowly increasing their performance and cost. i suspect itll keep going until they are too expensive and arent purchased anymore. then a new low cost model will be created and the cycle starts over.

this bike is the perfect WSS300 cheater bike. the Ninja300 and R3 were a pretty good match. this now has more power, a wider rear tire, a slipper, and is the same weight. itll own in WSS300 unless its seriously neutered. they might have to make it the same weight as the CBR500R, since that bike also makes 47HP and has the wider rear tire.

 

[Schnellbandit]

If Suzuki meets the challenge with a new 400 and the slightly more adult sized ergo they go for, I am in.

Nothing like competition to improve the breed.

 

[Junkie]

Supermotos are play bikes, this one will get tracked alot.

What? Lots of people ride supermotos on track (including me).

It's a kind of "dunno" type of answer. Simpleton me thought that perhaps above a certain weight and power, a sprotbile worth it's salt would automatically have two rotors. But fair, the CBR500R also only has one rotor. I suppose it uses half rotor wax, so a can lasts twice as long.

The Ninja 300 and the R3 are tracked a lot with only one rotor.

This has less power than a lot of supermotos (MX or real enduro based ones, not DRZs). Yes, it's heavier.

Supermotos weigh half as much as this thing will.

Not quite half - 168kg is 370lb, wet, vs I don't know, 250ish for a decent supermoto? I really don't know.

Include a rider at 175 with gear (around average I suspect) and we're at 425 for the supermoto and 545 for the Ninja 400, which is a 28% increase

It's far more to do with speed than weight.

Energy that needs to be dissipated is mass*deltaV^2 / 2.

A 400lb (180kg) bike that hits 135 mph (60m/s) before braking into a 55 mph (25 m/s) corner needs to dissipate 180 * (60-25)^2 / 2 = 110 kJ.

A bike of the same weight that hits only 100mph (45 m/s) only has to dissipate 180 * (45-25)^2 / 2 = 36 kJ.

Even if the faster bike were much lighter - say, 300lb (136kg) instead of 400lb - it would still have to dissipate 136 * (60-25)^2 / 2 = 83 kJ. Still more than twice as much as a much heavier bike that goes slower.

Brake capability is far more dependent on speed than weight.

I'd be surprised if there was brake fade from a single stop from max speed. I've certainly heard of brakes overheating after several laps, though. In order to put heat in over a longer time you need the power to make it in the first place.

Where were you when I was struggling to explain why cruisers often stop as well as sportbikes?

Thanks for the post.

That doesn't have much to do with the brakes themselves as long as they're adequate, it has more to do with the wheelbase and center of gravity.

Sportbikes have (relatively) short wheelbases, and high center of gravity. On a typical road, how fast you can stop is limited by stoppies, not traction or the brakes themselves.

Cruisers have long wheelbases, and low center of gravity. This means they're less likely to lift the back tire off the ground. They're more likely to be limited by the available traction, so with equal tires it wouldn't surprise me if a cruiser stopped faster.

Obviously this is a simplification: suspension matters, how far forward/back the center of gravity is matters, etc.

 

[russ69]

My stock '89 FZR400...It was really peaky with almost nothing happening below 10,000 rpm and no torque to speak of...

Not my impression at all. It was totally streetable and didn't have to be thrashed riding at 70%. I thought it had a nice powerband. On the track, you had to flog it hard that is true but it made a fine street bike. (We ran one at WSMC, which I tuned. I think we were 2nd for the year IIRC, won a couple of races and I had one in street trim).

 

[Map8]

What? Lots of people ride supermotos on track (including me). This has less power than a lot of supermotos (MX or real enduro based ones, not DRZs). Yes, it's heavier.Not quite half - 168kg is 370lb, wet, vs I don't know, 250ish for a decent supermoto? I really don't know.

Include a rider at 175 with gear (around average I suspect) and we're at 425 for the supermoto and 545 for the Ninja 400, which is a 28% increaseI'd be surprised if there was brake fade from a single stop from max speed. I've certainly heard of brakes overheating after several laps, though. In order to put heat in over a longer time you need the power to make it in the first place. That doesn't have much to do with the brakes themselves as long as they're adequate, it has more to do with the wheelbase and center of gravity.

Sportbikes have (relatively) short wheelbases, and high center of gravity. On a typical road, how fast you can stop is limited by stoppies, not traction or the brakes themselves.

Cruisers have long wheelbases, and low center of gravity. This means they're less likely to lift the back tire off the ground. They're more likely to be limited by the available traction, so with equal tires it wouldn't surprise me if a cruiser stopped faster.

Obviously this is a simplification: suspension matters, how far forward/back the center of gravity is matters, etc.

I always make the wheelbase/center of gravity argument but I can't supply the math to back it up.