Joseppi
no longer bikeless.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2007
- Location
- MantweeekaCa.
- Moto(s)
- 2003 kx 250 2 stroke,1996 Yamaha yz 250
- Name
- Lou
- BARF perks
- AMA #: 2749653
too bad i dont ride street anymore or pavement for that matter, just dirt now
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New Kawasaki Ninja 400
- Thread starter mrzuzzo
- Start date
Trying to figure it out with dynamics becomes incredibly complex.
If you're willing to look at it as a static scenario, the math is pretty simple for those of us who are engineers (or have taken a statics class).
The simple way to think of it: something tall and skinny is easier to push over than something short and wide. The short, wide object is more likely to slide, too.
I could do the math (with whatever numbers) if someone cares.
time to pick up 17s and slicks for your dirtbike
EastBayDave
- Kawasaki Fanatic -
I wouldn't fit it, but it looks hella cool.
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/kawasaki-ninja-400-debuts
Power up to 45hp, 28ft/lb torque, all while reducing weight by 13 pounds vs the Ninja 300.
Still has slipper clutch & ABS.
I'm expecting there will be a Versys 400 as well.
Thoughts?
EXCEPT for that OMG ugly as hell pipe!
Can't they go to duals or something? Oh, weight penalty....ok. If it was my bike, I wouldn't care if I had to have that POS attached. I'd immediately be in the aftermarket looking for full exhausts...
I'd bottom the shocks sitting on it....LOL
FreeRyde
The Curmudgeon
I disregard anyone who says a 250 or 300 is slow...
It's not the bike that is slow, it's the rider.
But the Japanese bikes are still using really dated technology. This is a 2018 model without inverted forks, radial brakes, braided lines, modern chassis (and by modern I mean something that was standardized in the 90s). It really feels to me that they are offering crap.
Compare this 2018 bike to what Derbi sold here in the States in 2005 for around $3500. Yeah this is a 50cc bike, but look at what it came with stock. Radial brakes, aluminum twin spar frame, aluminum swing arm, inverted forks, braided lines, etc. These Japanese bikes can't even reach that level. All the Japanese do is put on pretty plastics, and add some displacement. The Ninja is still an overweight under featured bike.
Note: this image is of a later model with a different livery, but it's the same bike.
Now I totally agree with the post about speed, but that said there are many other factors besides rotor diameter that effect how well brakes perform.
Well it's about the same weight as a Ducati 899 which comes with dual front rotors.
The Ninja is a pig. That's very simple to see. In the 90's they were building bikes with more power, performance, etc in the sub 300lbs area. For a bike that comes in at over 400lbs wet in 2018 this is really hard to justify.
Marcoose
50-50
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2009
- Location
- South Beach, SF
- Moto(s)
- '07 BMW F800s
- Name
- Marc
- BARF perks
- AMA #: 2818042
I feel that's the norm for most (Japanese) motorbikes. They come out of the factory with good fit and finish, few bugs, decent warranty, but otherwise very plain vanilla. Farkles and performance upgrades will put you back another 2-3 grand, which, wouldn't add $500 to the price if done from factory.
Blankpage
alien
People cruise along at 89-90 mph up I80 to Tahoe traffic permitting. I would't want to make that trip on a 250.
At what cc size do you consider a bike slow? Would you head out on the highway on a 125?
Dual exhaust, on a 400cc twin?I wouldn't fit it, but it looks hella cool.
EXCEPT for that OMG ugly as hell pipe!
Can't they go to duals or something? Oh, weight penalty....ok. If it was my bike, I wouldn't care if I had to have that POS attached. I'd immediately be in the aftermarket looking for full exhausts...
I'd bottom the shocks sitting on it....LOL
There's a cost penalty and a weight penalty, and most likely no power gain.
The cost and weight per can are significantly higher now than before, due to needing cats to meet emissions requirements.
New rubber lines work very well. Yes, as they age there's some deterioration.But the Japanese bikes are still using really dated technology. This is a 2018 model without inverted forks, radial brakes, braided lines, modern chassis (and by modern I mean something that was standardized in the 90s). It really feels to me that they are offering crap.
Compare this 2018 bike to what Derbi sold here in the States in 2005 for around $3500. Yeah this is a 50cc bike, but look at what it came with stock. Radial brakes, aluminum twin spar frame, aluminum swing arm, inverted forks, braided lines, etc. These Japanese bikes can't even reach that level. All the Japanese do is put on pretty plastics, and add some displacement. The Ninja is still an overweight under featured bike.
Note: this image is of a later model with a different livery, but it's the same bike.
The Ninja 400 is a real improvement over the 300: less weight, better frame, more power. That's not just "add some displacement".
The 899 is significantly heavier - it's dry weight is more than the Ninja 400's wet weight.Now I totally agree with the post about speed, but that said there are many other factors besides rotor diameter that effect how well brakes perform.
Well it's about the same weight as a Ducati 899 which comes with dual front rotors.
The Ninja is a pig. That's very simple to see. In the 90's they were building bikes with more power, performance, etc in the sub 300lbs area. For a bike that comes in at over 400lbs wet in 2018 this is really hard to justify.
The 899 also has enough power to get brakes hot. I suspect the Ninja 400 will have enough brake for the track if you put decent pads on it.
Why do you say over 400lb wet? Kawasaki says 168kg wet, which is 370lb.
Modern emissions requirements lead to a large increase in weight. Cats aren't light.
How much did the sub-300lb bikes that made more power than this cost? Were they street legal in the US?
mrzuzzo
New member
Any 50cc "bike" will be a featherweight compared to a real motorcycle, so it's pretty useless to compare apples to oranges.
As someone who commutes daily on an RVF400 I look forward to someone making a newer gen 400 that has more than 60rwhp, has USD forks, radial brakes and a proper frame, so I can retire this bike. I realize the 90s were the golden era in Japan for small displacement bikes, but like Tora said, these newer bikes are very underwhelming.
FreeRyde
The Curmudgeon
I've ridden thousands of miles on a Ninja 250, WFO 89-90mph+ everywhere.
Never even a hiccup.
Blankpage
alien
Well sure they're reliable but we're talking speed and WFO at 89-90 leaves nothing in the bag when it comes to pulling the trigger to escape danger.
sckego
doesn't like crashing
I hear this so much and just don't get it. Slow down or swerve. If you can't ride safely on a bike with a 100mph top speed, you're just a shitty rider.
Add me to the thousands-of-miles-on-a-250-with-no-issues list.
Wrycque
Wrycque = Rick
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2005
- Location
- Sonora
- Moto(s)
- Scrambler 1200xc
GasGas EC300
Husqvarna FE350S
- Name
- Rick
For those who don't know, this (my) 560 Supermoto is 295 lbs with hand guards, mirrors, side stand, tail bag, GPS, Radar Detector and a full tank of gas. Any more braking power would be ridiculous.
Slow Goat
Fun Junkie
Dunno why the wouldn’t use the exhaust system on the Ninja 650, specifically the post-cat “muffler” part. It is small, tucked out of the way and looks so much like an aftermarket piece that I’ve had people ask what brand I’ve put on.
It sounds like a big industrial vacuum under 4K, but my hearing is bad enough as it is so I don’t mind.