New Kawasaki Ninja 400

[Blankpage]

This is truly a function of location. There are plenty of places (like corners) where the smaller bikes will be faster than the bigger bikes. I tell you what though, I don't enjoy my motorcycle riding going straight nearly as much as I do going around corners.



But why would you even take one there? Pointless activities create pointless results.



This is a function of rider ability. And obviously carrying speed is one of the thrills of riding the little bikes.



Another skill development. Learning how to keep your small engine in the power band is a huge part of the fun. Sure it's not for the lazy rider, but if you are a lazy rider you might as well just get a car.



Exactly!



On an appropriate track the little bikes can be just as much fun, oh and the costs are usually about 1/20th--makes it possible to ride the track without being wealthy.











They don't because they suffer massively from SPS.

You have an answer for everything and they apply to maybe 10% of real world riding. It's as though you're the only one who has motorcycling figured out. Not everyone buys a bike to ride around a gokart track.

 

[Gary856]

I've ridden 250's on extremely long rides, 14+ hour day rides. It just so turns out that I could lead or keep pace with everyone, including those on 1290 SuperDuke GT 9000's and BMW GS's, Connie's. Yes, they can't go 110mph up steep inclines, but they can hold redline at 10k at 75mph up hills. (It should be noted that I am not right in the head)

What a miserable way to spend precious riding time (on a shitty 250). I'll take the SuperDuke, GS or Connie.

You folks do know the rest of the world rides 250's, right? We are an elite nation of unregulated, unskilled LiberBiek Ryders.

The rest of the world wants what we have. What's wrong with that? arty

 

[Marcoose]

... lower middle class ... and upper middle class income is ... the exact same ... close-minded bigot can grasp ... truly poor individuals are not buying Ninja 400's and going to trackdays with you.

Oui, oui, oui, monsieur, when you dismount your shiny white high horse and speak the language of the close-minded bigot, then it all makes more sense, though, dare I point out, your own words were, "Who cares about how fast it goes down the front straight at Thill? I sure fuck'n don't... Only .001% of 250/300/400's will EVER see the track. Track riding is for the wealthy and elite few, whom these bikes are not designed for." which contradicts your most recent argument of buying AND tracking.

Wealthy, elite, buying, tracking, bigot, holy cow, you're all over the place. Of course, nothing that more ad hom can't fix, so have at it.

 

[stangmx13]

You sure are working hard to rationalize buying bikes that don't even meet 1990's tech--this coming from the same guy that made a big deal about an additional 20mm on a front disc. lolz

Your math needs help. The Ninja 400 in England will be about £5100, an Aprilia RS4 50 retails for about £3800. Yes things are more expensive over there, but it is an actual real price comparison. Also, two strokes don't really need a slipper clutch. That's just a glommed on technology to help deal with yet another four stroke deficiency.

And yeah I get that you wouldn't buy a 50, that just illustrates how little you grok the two stroke Replicas.

wut are u talking about? "two strokes dont need a slipper", etc - how does that have any bearing on a convo about baby Ninjas and how Kawi seems to be consistently making them more powerful and higher spec?

yes, im speculating on why ppl like buying these motos and why Kawi keeps changing them. what r u doing besides complaining that they arent the exact moto that u want? are u even trying to understand other motorcyclist in the US?

its cool that the Aprilia/Derbi was been able to keep the cost of that 50cc motorcycle down over the years and have the price increase maybe match inflation. i dont actually know how much it cost in 2005, hence the maybe. unfortunately, we arent that lucky in the US.

 

[FreeRyde]

Oui, oui, oui, monsieur....

You have great taste in motorcycles, I have a 954RR as well, it's one of the best motorcycles ever made. This doesn't change the fact that objective reading comprehension is not one of your strong-points.

I am also, what you might call, a trashy redneck, therefore, I don't understand your intricate, french, bullshit, this is America, speak English.
(I love arguing on the internet, if we ever meet in reality, we'll probably be best friends)


Little bikes are awesome, Ninja 400 is dumb.

 

[Reli]

I did ride an FZR400 many years ago and what I remember most was what a pain in the ass that seat was. The other thing was the waiting for the engine to wind up. Not only are 250's slow, 400's can be slow also.

Exactly, and I don't see too many Americans driving Miatas or BRZ's. The majority of Americans don't enjoy engines that require high rev's to make good torque.

As for the argument "Oh but it's more fun".......In your opinion. Not every engine sounds or feels good when it's "in the power band". Plus most people want to kick back and relax every once in awhile, without having to downshift to get some nice passing power.

 

[anytwowilldo]

Exactly, and I don't see too many Americans driving Miatas or BRZ's. The majority of Americans don't enjoy engines that require high rev's to make good torque.

As for the argument "Oh but it's more fun".......In your opinion. Not every engine sounds or feels good when it's "in the power band". Plus most people want to kick back and relax every once in awhile, without having to downshift to get some nice passing power.

I agree, I can't think why I would be a 45 HP street bike, unless it was the only bike I could afford. I enjoy big horsepower and torque. Done right a liter bike will ride around town at 3-6 grand and be very docile. When you want to really have fun, a current liter bike feels like it will make the Earth turn in the opposite direction of rotation, and there are times that can be fun.

 

[Holeshot]

I see loads of trash rednecks at the tracks, but perhaps we go to different tracks.

Ducati days...

It appears that you don't know what the difference between lower middle class (working class) and upper middle class (classical middle class) income is. The income is the exact same, and only buying patterns/lifestyle choices differ. Those "trash rednecks" you love so much make a comparable salary to yourself. Their buying behaviors and lifestyle choices are the only difference.

Let me put it in understandable terms that even a close-minded bigot can grasp. Poor folk are NOT going to track days. Truly poor individuals are not buying Ninja 400's and going to trackdays with you.

Truly Poor individuals are not buying motorcycles period. Very few people purchase a motorcycle for commuting and do so very long. Those people are buying second hand bike...whatever is cheap.

Also, plenty of riders are taking their small bikes to the track. There's more than ever at trackdays and these people are not "Rich"

You have an answer for everything and they apply to maybe 10% of real world riding. It's as though you're the only one who has motorcycling figured out. Not everyone buys a bike to ride around a gokart track.

Or Thunderhill West. Horrible...

I have a 954RR as well, it's one of the best motorcycles ever made.

I'm starting to see where we'll never agree.

Exactly, and I don't see too many Americans driving Miatas or BRZ's. The majority of Americans don't enjoy engines that require high rev's to make good torque.

Torque is what gets a bike off the corner. The little bikes have always had the same argument: Watch our corner speed. It's really not as great as the legend because the rider skill is still relative and there aren't very many phenomenal riders left on small bikes...they tend to graduate and at least move up to something with a bit more HP (this isn't an absolute rule, though).

 

[wakked1]

400, 800, 1200, done.

 

[ToraTora]

wut are u talking about? "two strokes dont need a slipper", etc - how does that have any bearing on a convo about baby Ninjas and how Kawi seems to be consistently making them more powerful and higher spec?

You brought it up, so I responded to it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

yes, im speculating on why ppl like buying these motos and why Kawi keeps changing them.

Well then say that! lolz We know why Kawasaki added displacement to this bike. They did it to meet the new Euro emissions regulations.

what r u doing besides complaining that they arent the exact moto that u want? are u even trying to understand other motorcyclist in the US?

Actually quite a bit. You'd know this from reading my posts.

its cool that the Aprilia/Derbi was been able to keep the cost of that 50cc motorcycle down over the years and have the price increase maybe match inflation. i dont actually know how much it cost in 2005, hence the maybe. unfortunately, we arent that lucky in the US.

I posted that info previously in this thread--the same post to which you quoted me. In the States in 2005 a GPR50 was around $3500. I have one of those. It's my all time favorite bike--even over the 899 which is truly awesome.

You have an answer for everything

You have a problem with having your questions answered?

The only 2T 125s that I've seen that put out over 40hp at the rear wheel were the Aprilia RSW125, which for obvious reasons are not valid in this argument. What 125s are you talking about?

I've been wondering this myself, as the only ones I can think of are actually GP bikes. The Mito, and the Aprilia RS125 are heavier, and have less power. He could be talking about dirt bikes, or maybe a typo. I do know I'd like to ride one.

Exactly, and I don't see too many Americans driving Miatas or BRZ's. The majority of Americans don't enjoy engines that require high rev's to make good torque.

As for the argument "Oh but it's more fun".......In your opinion. Not every engine sounds or feels good when it's "in the power band". Plus most people want to kick back and relax every once in awhile, without having to downshift to get some nice passing power.

Yes, but this is a talk about smaller bikes. If you want a bigger bike then just get one, there are plenty of them around, and there's no law that I'm aware of that states you can't have more than one bike.

 

[Blankpage]

You have a problem with having your questions answered?

I have a problem with people who think their answers are everyone else's answers. Get over the fact that not everyone wants a 50cc with upside down forks. Its way way down the list of bikes people are looking for, but continue thinking people don't know what they want.

 

[FreeRyde]

continue thinking people don't know what they want.

People have no idea what they want.
Privatized prisons, private health care, etc...

Neoliberalism is b!tch.

 

[Reli]

Yes, but this is a talk about smaller bikes. If you want a bigger bike then just get one, there are plenty of them around, and there's no law that I'm aware of that states you can't have more than one bike.

I'll agree to that.

 

[Blankpage]

People have no idea what they want.
Privatized prisons, private health care, etc...

Neoliberalism is b!tch.

We're talking motorcycle right? If we're gonna include everything than that bleach blonde stripper with the boob job might not be the best choice to dump your current squeeze for even though she may be more fun in bed.

 

[ToraTora]

I have a problem with people who think their answers are everyone else's answers. Get over the fact that not everyone wants a 50cc with upside down forks. Its way way down the list of bikes people are looking for, but continue thinking people don't know what they want.

I will say that maybe you aren't understanding what I'm writing. That could easily be my fault.

I'm not saying that you should get a 50cc bike. I've never said that, but it's probably not all that hard for you to think you've read that--if you just skim.

In this case I said even a 50cc sport bike came better equipped 13 years ago than this sport bike will tomorrow. Can you understand that point? Am I saying that you should get a 50cc sport bike? Nope. Not at all.

Have you ever seen me say that a Harley cruiser should have inverted forks? This Ninja is a sport bike, that's why it should have sport bike features, and yet it doesn't. If you are going to dress a bike up to look like a sport bike, market it as a sport bike, then shouldn't it also have sport bike features? Can you understand that point?

KTM introduced a bike into this market with these features, and guess what? They couldn't produce enough of them. Are you so sure that people don't want these features? And please show me the studies where people actually do know what they want. Steve Jobs was famous for stating that customers had no idea what they wanted until it was provided to them. That's what made Apple such a phenomenally successful company--they came up with answers to question their customers hadn't even thought to ask.

With entry level, and mid level sport bikes though it's not even that hard. We already know what technologies make the bikes better. These technologies have been around for decades, and have proven that they are worth while. If they weren't you wouldn't continue to see them on the GP bikes. And yeah sure it takes time for these things to go down market, but two or three decades? Isn't that a bit long?

Seriously I can't understand why this is even an arguable point. It doesn't really cost a lot more to make a fork leg with a radial mount than an axial mount. It doesn't cost any more to make a caliper with a radial mount than an axial mount. Sure a braided line is going to cost a bit more than a rubber line, but they are charging more for the sport bike than they are for a generic bike, so where are the features?

That you cats can't see these things is what trips me out. That you would argue that a sport bike should come without sport bike features is just beyond goofy.

 

[russ69]

...There are plenty of places (like corners) where the smaller bikes will be faster than the bigger bikes....

Lighter bikes CAN corner at higher rates but there is no place that a big bore can't run down a small bore. The problem with the street, and the track, is that they both have straights and small bikes get eaten up because a big bore's cornering speeds are not significantly slow enough to eliminate their advantage of more power.

 

[Junkie]

This. Fun bikes, but I can play a few levels of Candy Crush down the straight at Thunderhill.




The 400, for starters.

In its class, the Ninja 300 is heavy. Heavier than the R3, heavier than the RC390, heavier than the CBR300.

Not a big surprise that a twin is heavier than singles. I bet it makes more power than the others too.

i said the "new" arms race. given that the OEMs are making these bikes and they are selling, it seems that none of that matters to the majority of street riders. the arms race is now about power, a slipper, and maybe fly-by-wire, while still keeping costs low. the largest benefit of all the parts u listed is "looks", which just isnt worth the cost to OEMs or the added MSRP.

those "higher spec" parts dont even have a large impact on laptimes either. i was just having a convo w/ a reputable tuner back east about lightweight twins lap records. he says a lot of them were set on SV650s with the OEM front end (w/ fork carts of course), even though every squid on the planet thinks they need a GSXR front end w/ USD forks, larger rotors, and radial 4 piston brakes. nah, its all bullshit. the time gained in club racing due to those parts is tenths at best.

inflation adjustment from 2005 is 25%. id suggest going even higher with motorcycles. the '05 R6 was $8399 and the '17 is $12199 = 45%. so a Ninja300 is about the same price. no fucking way id buy a 50cc bike over a 300 for the same cost

I'm surprised that the current lap records are on bikes with stock front ends. Do they not have an appropriate class for SVs with more modern forks?

I agree, I can't think why I would be a 45 HP street bike, unless it was the only bike I could afford. I enjoy big horsepower and torque. Done right a liter bike will ride around town at 3-6 grand and be very docile. When you want to really have fun, a current liter bike feels like it will make the Earth turn in the opposite direction of rotation, and there are times that can be fun.

On some bikes, 45hp is reasonable. Supermotos are gonna suck on the freeway no matter how much power they have, but 45hp is plenty to not be stressed maintaining freeway speeds (if gearing is reasonable). Of course, they have to be light to be fun.

 

[Blankpage]

I will say that maybe you aren't understanding what I'm writing. That could easily be my fault.

Sure, I got it now. Forgive my ignorance in choosing a literbike

 

[Reli]

Looks good IMO.....
But a bike that looks like that should have real clip-ons, not dorky riser bars

 

[kuksul08]

Looks good IMO.....
But a bike that looks like that should have real clip-ons, not dorky riser bars

So the myriad of beginner and economy-minded riders can be contorted into an uncomfortable lump and be forever turned off to motorcycling as a whole? My lower back, for one, welcomes the dorky risers.