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New Kawasaki Ninja 400

im still sketchy from my stroke 3 years ago and riding on the pavement scares the shite out of me ,i lost everything i ever knew about riding pavement with my memory loss and i feel it would be dangerous for me to be out there with anybody so i just stick to dirt riding,im happy with that and it has been helping with my memory
:thumbup

Ride on ! :thumbup

IMO #of cc's, how the suspension bits look, and weight don't tell the whole story. Skill level, mission profile, and rider expectations are the determining factors of the "right" bike
 
Dunno, how much time do you spend staring at the fake hood scoop on your Tacoma or 4Runner? At least USD forks have an actual benefit, unlike that shit.
:rofl. I drive a beat up '91 D21, no panel without dents and/or rust.

I don't care what it looks like as long as it does its job. As far as USD forks go they're far beyond anything I ever needed for street riding. I'm not sayin' anything, I'm just sayin'. (If that sounds like wannabe poser GP boi to you that's on you.)
 
USD forks don't just benefit track riding. Their much more advanced damping produces benefits on every road except the perfectly smooth and flat. Not to mention that damping is adjustable.
 
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Do USD forks really have that much better damping than cartridge conventional forks?
 
do usd forks really have that much better damping than cartridge conventional forks?

lmgtfy:


mcn said:
the reason behind upside-down forks
published: 01 february 2002

source: http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2002/february/the-reason-behind-upside-down-forks/

Telescopic forks do a difficult job. Not only do they have to keep the front tyre in contact with the road under a wide range of conditions, they also have to withstand braking and steering forces that try to twist and bend them in all directions.

The problems are amplified on the track, where forces are taken to extremes. In the late 1980s, race teams found that by turning their forks upside-down, they improved their bikes’ handling. And upside-down forks are still with us.

In fact, most serious sports bikes have them. But how does turning forks upside-down help and are they really better than conventional ones?

To find the answer, you need to look at the individual parts of a telescopic fork and what you want to achieve.

Forks need to be rigid, to function well as suspension parts and be as light as possible.

Let’s look at suspension operation first as there’s almost no difference between inverted and right-way-up forks in operation.

A fork generally has a spring and damping unit inside. The spring absorbs and releases energy as the fork compresses and extends, and the damper unit controls how quickly it does this. Oil also plays its part in the operation (see separate story, right). Modern set-ups are usually cartridge forks because the damping unit is self-contained. This means the same type of unit can be used regardless of fork orientation. For example, yamaha’s r6 (inverted forks) and the r1 (conventional forks) have virtually identical cartridges.

The big difference between the two is in their strength. Most of the stress caused by forks bending occurs just below the bottom yoke. When you pull the brake lever you actually brake the wheel – the bike only slows because it’s attached to the forks.

All the momentum of the bike acts through the forks, trying to push the front wheel along.

Chris taylor, of k-tech suspension, explains: " inverted forks are much more rigid because they’re held by the larger diameter part of the fork called the slider. Conventional forks mount by the stanchion.

" most modern bikes with inverted forks use a 53mm diameter slider, but stanchions are rarely over 43mm so it’s easy to see why they’re weaker. Compare inverted and conventional forks and you’ll see the slider is much longer on the inverted forks. "

the more rigid slider makes up a higher percentage of the overall length. This reduces flex and improves handling and feel.

Inverted forks generally have more overlap – the amount the stanchion protrudes into the slider – than conventional forks. And the more overlap there is, the more rigid the fork – just like an extending ladder.

Inverted forks also have longer slider bushes. These fit between the slider body and stanchion and are what the bearing surfaces act upon. They do the same thing as oil in your engine. By using longer slider bushes, the stanchion is held more firmly and exerts less pressure on them – since they have larger bearing surfaces.

However, longer bushes cause more stiction, another way of saying static friction. So it takes more effort to start the stanchions sliding than it does to keep them sliding. There’s nothing wrong with this, except we want progressive movement so we can accurately control the suspension.

The final advantage of inverted forks is their weight. It’s often assumed inverted forks are heavier because of the carriers, but that’s not the case. The steel stanchion is the heaviest part of the fork assembly and inverted forks have shorter and thinner walled ones. This means less steering inertia and a more responsive feel.
 
funny, there's nothing about damping in there

I'd expect conventional and USD forks to have similar damping if they have similar quality cartridges.
I was assuming the Ninja didn't have cartridges. The 250 didn't. It was just a damping rod fork, like the SV650.
Yes, the stock forks are garbage, but there are good quality cartridge conventional forks available. Look at early R6s/any R6s as the first example that comes to mind. Not as sexy though.

It also wouldn't surprise me if they decided to make a bike with USD forks with damping rods, to make it sexier but not spend any more than they have to.
 
Yes there is: corners. ;)

Well if that's how you feel then it's fairly obvious that you don't understand this bike, nor this conversation.

The Ninja 400 is a sport bike.

Revzilla considers it a sport bike.

Road Racing World considers it a sport bike.

Cycle World considers it a sport bike.

There are more, although this should be plenty to illustrate the point. Still, I'll go one further just in case you need it sent home. Even Kawasaki considers it a sport bike.

How you use the bike doesn't change what it is--for instance I commute on an 899. That doesn't magically make it not a super bike. It's still a super bike.

The Ninja 400 is a sport bike.

I've logged about 20,000 miles on the old gen Ninja 250s at this point. IMO, that's enough to get a decent handle on a given model... So... I think I do understand the conversation.

It's a cheap bike that dabbles in everything. People race them, yes.... but the frame has always been pretty shitty, and suspension generally terrible. Sport bikes are made to go fast - sure... but... Just because you ride a bike fast doesn't necessarily make the bike a sport bike. That's the Ninja 250.

The new one? Questionable. Lot more engine, and a totally different frame. I have absolutely zero experience with this newest generation of skimpy trellis frames that utilize the engine as a stressed member. How hard can you push them before the chassis starts to misbehave? No idea. Maybe I'll hit up the forums over at 13x and see if any of those guys have any comments.

Regardless, the primary mission of the Ninja 250/300 (and probably 400) has never been 'be a sport bike.' To say anything otherwise just tells me what you've never ridden one.

Have you ridden one?
 
funny, there's nothing about damping in there

I'd expect conventional and USD forks to have similar damping if they have similar quality cartridges. Yes, the stock forks are garbage, but there are good quality cartridge conventional forks available. Look at early R6s/any R6s as the first example that comes to mind. Not as sexy though.

It also wouldn't surprise me if they decided to make a bike with USD forks with damping rods, to make it sexier but not spend any more than they have to.

To clarify, there are 6 possible types of forks:

USD forks with damping rods (Hyosung GT650 is the only one I know of)
USD forks with cartridges, but non-adjustable damping
USD forks with cartridges, adjustable damping (pretty much every real sportbike these days)
Conventional forks with damping rods (SV650, old Ninja 250, and probably this 400 too)
Conventional forks with cartridges, non-adjustable
Conventional forks with cartridges, adjustable
And then there's all the weird stuff like Telelever, hub-center-steered, single-sided fork, and other shit that I won't bother going into
 
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There are other setups too, including BPF (significantly different than conventional cartridges), gold valve emulators, one fork adjustable and the other not, etc.

My point was that conventional vs USD doesn't really have anything to do with damping.
 
To clarify, there are 6 possible types of forks:

USD forks with damping rods (Hyosung GT650 is the only one I know of)

Grom has this as well.

My BMW has some weird fork where one side fork is adjustable and other is not.
 
I like it. I want to ride one quickly in the hills.
 
Anyone here have one of these yet?...
 
I don't have one.. yet

I ridden one on the track via Feel like a Pro. Man it was a blast! It was mostly stock but had no issues keeping pace in B.

Also test rode one and took a city ride. Great little bike!
 
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