Question about professionals and the Porsche GT

[Reli]

And even the Isle of Man, none of them are getting 100%. An android with a jillion sensors & shit could beat any human easily.

 

[aminalmutha]

And even the Isle of Man, none of them are getting 100%. An android with a jillion sensors & shit could beat any human easily.

Funny, no android has been built as of yet that can out-ride a top-level motorcycle racer. Or even race car driver. What is 100%?

Anyways, this is getting totally derailed. Point is, most people can't really come anywhere close to the limits of high performance vehicles.

I'm a decently quick street rider. I've done a little track time and such. I could probably get down the road as quick ore more quickly than most. But after riding with an honest to goodness pro racer, I very quickly realized that those guys are on a whole nother level. Not even funny... orders of magnitude better/faster.

 

[Johndicezx9]

Just to remind everyone of how this chain of conversation came to be...

As evidenced by several posts in this thread, there certainly are places where a mere mortal certainly can use all the power of a literbike. The conversation did not include such things as cornering ability or the total performance envelope, and so are irrelevant to this particular thread of the conversation.

You missed the one that led to the conversation... pretty much what he's saying about the GT can be said about his GSXR because while we all enjoy 150hp+ bikes, we don't really need them, let alone utilize them to their maximum strengths.

I could buy a cannon but what is the point if I cannot shoot it? I rather have a rifle which I can take to any range.

I can fathom the rationale behind buying a super Porsche, from impressing the dudes at the garage to showing off my penoz substitute.

But I have never driven on a race track, so I am trying to understand power and handling better.

 

[sanjuro]

You missed the one that led to the conversation... pretty much what he's saying about the GT can be said about his GSXR because while we all enjoy 150hp+ bikes, we don't really need them, let alone utilize them to their maximum strengths.

I think the difference is that it is much easier for car drivers to hit Tilt, the point which you are past your skill limit, because of the safety of the cage.

Any two-wheeled vehicle you could be in a bad crash at any speed. The penalty for error is likely to be an injury.

I do not know what speed the Porsche was going, but assuming that street is 35mph speed limit, did Paul Walker think 70mph was a fatal speed in his car?

Now does any rider think 35mph is a speed which no injuries could happen? Or 70? Is only when you are doing 170 is the risk too high?

As for the performance capabilities of a liter bike or the ability to utilize it 100%, that is a long discussion as well. But for a machine with good speed on the straights and pedestrian handling, yes, I have utilized my motorcycle to its capacity.

 

[Yakoo752]

But after riding with an honest to goodness pro racer, I very quickly realized that those guys are on a whole nother level. Not even funny... orders of magnitude better/faster.

riding with some AFM dudes is pretty humbling. You're absolutely right though - I got to ride with some AMA talent last year and knowing they were at a fraction of their ability

I highly recommend taking StarSchool or American Supercamp/RoadRace Factory for some perspective on where you stand next to talent

I did Supercamp with Gagne, Puerta, and Beach and even on the little bikes they were impressive

 

[TheRobSJ]

I had this argument with the barf collective once too. I said that I've used my bike to its limit just because I hit max speed with it. And just as it is now with you saying it, I was pretty much laughed at back then too.

Top speed is just one measurement of a vehicle's performance capabilities. And while I was able to see 100% of that particular aspect, I don't think they were gonna have me replace Hayden or Duhamel (at the time I had my RC51) on the Honda factory team.

If it just takes one aspect to say you've "taken it to the limit" with any vehicle, then in that case every single driver/rider on the road can say that. Because who hasn't had to panic stop and get maximum braking performance from their vehicle at least once in their life?

 

[Holeshot]

Something funny about "the limit"…racers are ALWAYS changing their bikes to try and get more performance out of them. The limit is mostly in a riders skill level and head…the bike itself has no or any limit without a rider. Yes, some bikes are faster, handle better, heavier, etc…however once a "limit" is reached on a bike (that causes a rider to not get any faster) then something is changed on the bike. That limit is determined by the rider…there's no way to determine the bike's limit.

On the PW crash, I saw a blurb that the vehicle may have been leaking fluid onto the rear tires. Either way, loss of rear grip seems to be where they're going, which seem obvious given the crash scene.

 

[aminalmutha]

riding with some AFM dudes is pretty humbling. You're absolutely right though - I got to ride with some AMA talent last year and knowing they were at a fraction of their ability

I highly recommend taking StarSchool or American Supercamp/RoadRace Factory for some perspective on where you stand next to talent

I did Supercamp with Gagne, Puerta, and Beach and even on the little bikes they were impressive

Got to ride with EBoz at ASC. Humbling.

 

[corndog67]

riding with some AFM dudes is pretty humbling. You're absolutely right though - I got to ride with some AMA talent last year and knowing they were at a fraction of their ability

I highly recommend taking StarSchool or American Supercamp/RoadRace Factory for some perspective on where you stand next to talent

I did Supercamp with Gagne, Puerta, and Beach and even on the little bikes they were impressive

I've been riding with some pro racers, trail riding. Talk about those guys riding on a different level. I was at Clear Creek, many years ago. Im trying to climb Abees, or McColloughs hill. I'm struggling. Not making it, trying again and again. Half way up in another attempt, ole number 3, Ricky Graham, catches air off the top, coming downhill towards me, he was probably in 3rd or 4th gear coming down this steep ass hill, then tosses it sideways, and swings past the front of me in this big arc, roosting the shit out of me, and just arcs across the front of this big hill, and just makes that bike hook up and drive right back up over the top, catching air off the top. I was on a CR 500, tryinf to get a run at it, he was on a CR500 also, and just tye amount of traction he got was impressive.

 

[Johndicezx9]

Keep in mind that 160 mph is 2.67 miles per minute... You certainly aren't going to use that 100% for very long...

I think Sam Kinison used to have a joke about why you don't want to film yourself having sex; you're thinking "charging rhino" while you're doing it, but when you watch it later it's more like "Eeeeek, a mouse!"

 

[Yakoo752]

I've been riding with some pro racers, trail riding. Talk about those guys riding on a different level. I was at Clear Creek, many years ago. Im trying to climb Abees, or McColloughs hill. I'm struggling. Not making it, trying again and again. Half way up in another attempt, ole number 3, Ricky Graham, catches air off the top, coming downhill towards me, he was probably in 3rd or 4th gear coming down this steep ass hill, then tosses it sideways, and swings past the front of me in this big arc, roosting the shit out of me, and just arcs across the front of this big hill, and just makes that bike hook up and drive right back up over the top, catching air off the top. I was on a CR 500, tryinf to get a run at it, he was on a CR500 also, and just tye amount of traction he got was impressive.

I have a similar story from Stonyford in the rain... only someone had to ride my moto-out cause I couldn't... I was standing, bouncing, and shifting through all gears (doing everything I could) and was sliding backwards down the mountain. He hopped on and within seconds was gone. It was a sad and very lonely hike up... good thing he went and got me a beer to cry into

F-those guys and their skill

 

[DrSwade]

Anyone remember that Keigwin's day at Sear's in 2010 when John Hopkins showed up on a showroom GSX-R600 and buzzed around in the front of A group.
I don't remember the details because I was focusing on my own riding but seeing those Hoppy/dice leathers buzzing around me was pretty cool. I think I was doing 54s back then.

 

[afm199]

I'm a decently quick street rider. I've done a little track time and such. I could probably get down the road as quick ore more quickly than most. But after riding with an honest to goodness pro racer, I very quickly realized that those guys are on a whole nother level. Not even funny... orders of magnitude better/faster.

This. I played in a pickup game of baseball with one guy who had played three years of pro ball, and was now a social worker. I could not believe how easy he made everything look. He was playing so far beyond any one else in the game that it was like another dimension. And that was after eight years of retirement.

The real pros operate in a universe the rest of us can't.

 

[Sharky]

This. I played in a pickup game of baseball with one guy who had played three years of pro ball, and was now a social worker. I could not believe how easy he made everything look. He was playing so far beyond any one else in the game that it was like another dimension. And that was after eight years of retirement.

The real pros operate in a universe the rest of us can't.

I still find it hard to believe that people are amazed that professional athletes are better than regular guys at things like sports they are earning a living playing.
Lol

 

[sanjuro]

This. I played in a pickup game of baseball with one guy who had played three years of pro ball, and was now a social worker. I could not believe how easy he made everything look. He was playing so far beyond any one else in the game that it was like another dimension. And that was after eight years of retirement.

The real pros operate in a universe the rest of us can't.

I was at yesterday's Warriors game, and Nemanja Nedović played 5 minutes, scored zero points, and made one pass the crowd chuckled at.

This shrimpy point guard is 6'3", 190lbs, and was the best basketball player on any court until he joined the NBA.

 

[UDRider]

I still find it hard to believe that people are amazed that professional athletes are better than regular guys at things like sports they are earning a living playing.
Lol

Because most don't quite grasp what it takes to get there, and that's with some genes/natural talent.

 

[Reli]

Funny, no android has been built as of yet that can out-ride a top-level motorcycle racer.

Only because there's no motivation to create one. It would cost too much, and neither the manufacturers nor the sponsors would want it anyway, because #1 the rules don't allow it, and #2 they still want real people riding the bikes for the whole "personality/likeability" bullshit that makes people watch racing in the first place.

But that doesn't mean they couldn't.

Humans just aren't capable of analyzing every inch of road surface every single micro-second in order to determine the precise combination of lean, throttle and/or brake needed to achieve the best possible lap time that a bike could possibly achieve. Human senses just aren't that good, their brains can't process that much simultaneously, and they get distracted by many things like fellow competitors, noise, emotion, fatigue, etc.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

i've always wondered what a robot could get as a 'best lap time possible for the bike" at say Sonoma or Thill - really wonder how much faster it would be than the pros. i suspect a robot tuned to its max, would be substantially faster than a pro ...

 

[mike23w]

i've always wondered what a robot could get as a 'best lap time possible for the bike" at say Sonoma or Thill - really wonder how much faster it would be than the pros. i suspect a robot tuned to its max, would be substantially faster than a pro ...

in theory, a robot would only be limited by how fast it could adjust to conditions (ie limited by computing power and responsiveness of actuators controlling the bike). it could accelerate and corner to just a hair's breath away from crashing. no human has that kind of nerve.

if tuned perfectly, no human would be able to beat it because optimal lap times are completely based on physics (adjusting bike inputs to the road conditions) and nothing else. i would guess this is a computationally tractable problem.

it wouldn't be an android or humanoid. it would be a motorcycle with a black box (the computer) connected to to the steering, throttle, brakes, shifter. a much smaller, lighter, simpler form factor than a human shaped robot.

once you create this robotic bike, it means*people racing bikes becomes less interesting because then it's just watching how close racers can get to the best robotic bike lap times.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

true, creating an android or black box which would (after some time and tuning) whop on any human pro - very well might lessen the interest in racing.

unless EVERY bike had a *identical tuning capability and weight etc* robot - then teams/brands racing would truely be testing who makes the fastest machine, rather than who makes the machine that a human can control at the highest possible speed we can muster...... which might very well bring MORE interest to racing - tho the races would likely be rather short as the faster machine would be determined pretty quickly i'd think