Burning1
I'm scareoused!
You shouldn't be low-siding a modern sport bike, either on the street or track. But despite that, it still happens far too often.
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S100RR Traction Control
- Thread starter Wack
- Start date
You shouldn't be low-siding a modern sport bike, either on the street or track. But despite that, it still happens far too often.
"Wack, so what you're saying is dumbass riders who do stupid shit on public roads are the target market for the S1000RR? "
After reviewing my post I don't believe I said that. In this one instance the rider was saved by his TC. The S1000RR didn't even twitch. It's pretty amazing to me that you can flick a 185 RWHP bike over the DY covered with dust and sand while hamfisting it and have no drama. I can understand why Rossi hated the advent TC now.
After reviewing my post I don't believe I said that. In this one instance the rider was saved by his TC. The S1000RR didn't even twitch. It's pretty amazing to me that you can flick a 185 RWHP bike over the DY covered with dust and sand while hamfisting it and have no drama. I can understand why Rossi hated the advent TC now.
Aluisious
Well-known member
I believe he was implying that only an idiot makes a full throttle run through an area with three intersections, hundreds of vehicles and people, and a large helping of clueless riders/drivers pulling every idiotic maneuver conceivable.
Archimedes
Fire Watcher
Yes. Yes I was.
Wack my point was that, the situation you described that required traction control was caused by a dumbass move on the part of the rider and all it proves is that TC can save a dumbass when he makes a dumbass move.
Archimedes
Fire Watcher
I totally agree and I've never done it, but most of the time it happens on dry, clean pavement, it's due to one of the two things I mentioned: losing the front end under braking or losing the rear end under braking. The percentage of lowsides that could be prevented by TC is miniscule and even more miniscule is the percentage of those experienced by the non-racer, typical street rider. What we have here is a solution looking for a problem where it doesn't exist, except on the fringes.
Having ridden a BMW K1300S with similar traction control to the S100R for the past year I would like to contribute my experience.
I consider myself a safe and skilled rider (5 years, track days on an SV650 / 3k mile touring trips / and I really don't push the limits on the street, never dropped a bike in any form).
I have had the rear wheel (and front for that matter) slide a few times over my riding experience, and have been able to recover without consequences. Experiencing this on a bike without traction control like the SV vs the BMW is completely different.
The BMW make it so much of a non even, that you barely realize it happened. The reason for this is reaction time. Without traction control it is probably nearly half a second before you notice the slide, and react to it. The BMW this is done in 1/10th of a second, resulting in much less of a slide than without it.
The few times this has kicked in I don't know what would have happened, but I was glad it was there.
my 2c
btw, it also prevents wheelies,
though it can be turned off.
I consider myself a safe and skilled rider (5 years, track days on an SV650 / 3k mile touring trips / and I really don't push the limits on the street, never dropped a bike in any form).
I have had the rear wheel (and front for that matter) slide a few times over my riding experience, and have been able to recover without consequences. Experiencing this on a bike without traction control like the SV vs the BMW is completely different.
The BMW make it so much of a non even, that you barely realize it happened. The reason for this is reaction time. Without traction control it is probably nearly half a second before you notice the slide, and react to it. The BMW this is done in 1/10th of a second, resulting in much less of a slide than without it.
The few times this has kicked in I don't know what would have happened, but I was glad it was there.
my 2c
btw, it also prevents wheelies,
though it can be turned off.
tzrider
Write Only User
What's the source of this information?
Archimedes
Fire Watcher
I'm just going off 25 years of riding experience and trolling multiple forums for the last decade reading about crash after crash. I don't see any highsides or spun-up-the-rear lowsides personally or being discussed. I see tons of lost the-front-end lowsides, freaked-stood-it-up-and-rode-it-off-the-track/road crashes and freaked-and-stabbed-the-rear-brake crashes. In fact the only guys I've known who routinely spin up the rear wheel have been racers and super-fast A riders and the only highsides I've ever witnessed or heard about have been those groups on the track.
Are riders high siding themselves off their bikes routinely around here? Am I missing it?
I've probably done 40 track days over a span of 10 years and I've witnessed exactly 2 highsides, 1 of which was caused by a catastrophic engine failure and no TC was gonna save him.
Aluisious
Well-known member
In the dry no. Rain, yes.
Burning1
I'm scareoused!
I've seen a fair share of crashes caused by overaggressive riding on cold tires, poor throttle control, oil, puddles, painted lines, steel grates, sand, dirt. The rain is another matter all-together.
tzrider
Write Only User
You may have missed the post where I said riders fall off the lowside regularly from screwing the gas on too hard while adding lean angle. The Superbike School has been tracking crash stats since its inception and in recent years about 40% of crashes have been the result of too much throttle and lean angle. Relatively few of these are highsides.
To highside, you've got to react to the slide before you're on the ground. When riders add lean angle while opening the throttle, they create a spike in the traction demand. If you merely did one thing or the other, the slide would begin a little more slowly, but often when the two happen in combination, the bike goes sideways very quickly. This probably explains why we're not seeing a large percentage of highsides in these cases, as riders are on their asses before they can even close the throttle.
One of the things that remains true about many single vehicle crash scenarios is that the rider often doesn't really know what put him on the ground. Reading the Crash Analysis forum for a while will illustrate that.
There have been plenty of crash videos posted on BARF over the years that clearly show the back of a bike coming around on the gas. I don't know that I'd be able to find them now, but I specifically remember one in the Carousel at Infineon and another from turn 11 at T-Hill (a common place for riders to toss it away on the gas). The exit of the turn 9 chicane at Infineon is another place where that scenario plays our regularly. I've personally seen it more times than I can count.