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Safety Features on New Motorcycles

sckego said:
...but NOT for hamfisted n00bs who might accidentally grab a bit too much throttle while leaned over in a low-traction situation, amirite? :x Or do hamfisted n00bs count as idiots on account of their hamfisted n00bness?
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If you're a n00b, you should know enough not to grab a lot of throttle while leaned over. So yeah, hamfisted n00bs count as idiots.
 
ilikefood said:
If you're a n00b, you should know enough not to grab a lot of throttle while leaned over. So yeah, hamfisted n00bs count as idiots.
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Re-read my quote, making sure to pay attention to the word "accidentally." When you have little-to-no throttle control, knowing you shouldn't do something is very different from not doing it.
 
ilikefood said:
Both can make riding safer, but while ABS makes riding safer for everyone, TC makes riding safer for people who are riding like idiots.
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One particular riding experience stands out in my mind that didn't require riding like an idiot for TC to be useful. Coming down a very twisty mountain road in the rain, my group encountered a diesel spill. You couldn't see it. You might have been able to smell it, but only once you were on it. That spill covered a turn. TC could have been really useful.

Changes in traction conditions that are not easily read or anticipated don't only apply to braking.
 
flying_hun said:
One particular riding experience stands out in my mind that didn't require riding like an idiot for TC to be useful. Coming down a very twisty mountain road in the rain, my group encountered a diesel spill. You couldn't see it. You might have been able to smell it, but only once you were on it. That spill covered a turn. TC could have been really useful.

Changes in traction conditions that are not easily read or anticipated don't only apply to braking.
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Covering a turn makes me wonder if TC is really addressing the worst of the problems encountered. If the rear is going to go, the front will probably go too anyway.
 
Aluisious said:
ABS is an idea for bikes I like. My street crashes have all been brake related. Traction control...Jesus, just calm down on the road. I have never wanted or needed traction control in 50k miles of riding on crappy roads and in a lot of bad weather. Brakes are so much more powerful and faster to act than any engine, and you usually need them the most when you aren't expecting it.

To need traction control implies making constantly poor decisions, instead of one mistake with brakes.
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Mostly I agree with your take on finding ABS more important that TC. On the bolded remark above, I'll point out that about 45% of crashes at the Superbike School used to be from riders adding lean angle and throttle at a corner exit. TC has essentially eliminated that scenario.

While the context of street and track are different, a lot of sport riders fall down when they roll on the gas and add lean angle at the same time. The common scenario is they intend to roll on through the whole turn, find they need to tighten their line part way into the turn and don't deviate from their plan with the throttle. It's a judgement error on a couple of levels, but common enough that TC as a rider aid makes a non-trivial difference.
 
ilikefood said:
Hmm... just think about it - how exactly would any of these situations happen without a fundamentally bad decision by the rider?
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You can make the same argument about any of the mistakes that rider aids are meant to safeguard. People do continue to make these errors and the aids are one way of improving the safety margin.

On one hand I say all this and on the other, I appreciate motorcycles that are simple, to the point and require the rider to pay attention. For whatever reasons, I've noticed I don't always feel the same way about whether I'd want this stuff on my own bikes.
 
I'll just say it again, I'm giddy glad I don't have those electronic control managers on my bike...

Part of the enjoyment of riding the nastiest conditions I can find, is the euphoria of handling it.
Doing it all on the judging the traction, that is changing as I go.

And...I can only depend on what I know.

It would scare the crap out of me to get results modified, by a computer program.

Plus neutering my bike? Good God, I don't want a snooze when I ride...Intense is the only acceptable way.
 
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louemc said:
I'll just say it again, I'm giddy glad I don't have those electronic control managers on my bike...

Part of the enjoyment of riding the nastiest conditions I can find, is the euphoria of handling it.
Doing it all on the judging the traction, that is changing as I go.

And...I can only depend on what I know.

It would scare the crap out of me to get results modified, by a computer program.

Plus neutering my bike? Good God, I don't want a snooze when I ride...Intense is the only acceptable way.
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You still haven't answered the question about why you feel you need a steering damper. Surely, something that's modifying the inputs from the road can't be a good thing, can it? It's just detracting from the excitement and intensity. For that matter, why have suspension? Wouldn't a direct linkage allow you to better "feel" every little nuance of the road? Having those pesky springs/shocks damping out the majority of road imperfections is for pussies, after all. :thumbup
 
I met a guy once who told me that he never got used to rear suspension on a bike. He said it made the bike feel like the back was sliding around, and he wanted the experience of more immediate contact with the road that came with riding a hardtail. I guess he thought the rest of us were sissies who rode like assholes. :dunno
 
Hey, at some point, you just may stop evolving with technology. Heck, I'm still not entirely sold on ride-by-wire...
 
Spec-ECU said:
Hey, at some point, you just may stop evolving with technology. Heck, I'm still not entirely sold on ride-by-wire...
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Some cars out there are steer by wire. Fortunately that's not on motorcycling's immediate horizon.....at least until the Google-bike comes out.
 
tzrider said:
Mostly I agree with your take on finding ABS more important that TC. On the bolded remark above, I'll point out that about 45% of crashes at the Superbike School used to be from riders adding lean angle and throttle at a corner exit. TC has essentially eliminated that scenario.

While the context of street and track are different, a lot of sport riders fall down when they roll on the gas and add lean angle at the same time. The common scenario is they intend to roll on through the whole turn, find they need to tighten their line part way into the turn and don't deviate from their plan with the throttle. It's a judgement error on a couple of levels, but common enough that TC as a rider aid makes a non-trivial difference.
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I tend to agree with that. I've seen very entertaining videos on sport riders crashing on Mulholland dr. and most them IMHO display poor throttle control: they're on the apex, some lean, trying to look cooler for the cameras or what not (this video/camera guy he stays on this turn and sells videos/pics later), they lean further (it's a decreasing radius turn), and then they add just a bit of throttle or modulate it too much. BAM, low side they go. Case in point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLiovGtZapw
 
There are so many video's of Mulholland dr. crashers...I have to assume it's easy to see it either way.

The bozo that crashes because they can't go around a simple corner...
Can pull off that fail, in two commonly different ways.

I see more from stupid brake applications, Over taxing the front tire traction, lose front wheel, low sides.

Rider had an Oh shit moment, felt he needed to slow it down, added front brake...
Yeah it slowed to a stop, into a guard rail or embankment.
 
Motorama said:
I tend to agree with that.
...
Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLiovGtZapw
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I agree in general, but this particular example does not appear to be a candidate for TC. Watch the slow mo and the rider never reaches for the front brake and the rear doesn't step out, the front end tucks. It looked to me like he rolled off the throttle and that may have been the weight transfer to the front that took it past its adhesion limit.
 
I can't call it, his mirror blocks the view of his first finger (the one I use).

You could be right, but...still there is no excuse for crashing.

The well dressed bozo, wasn't skilled enough to recover, when the message came though his bike,
that is was not going to put up with his crap, any longer.
 
Well then, He violated the "when in doubt gas it" Golden rule.

Problem with pavement only riders, they tend to never learn how to rear wheel steer.
So they equate steering with full dependence on the front wheel.

Well, that doesn't work out so swell, and it's recorded on video... :wow :rofl
 
2001 vintage ABS is SCARY!!!! Scary shit.. no sir, don't like it at all.
 
Ironbutt said:
2001 vintage ABS is SCARY!!!! Scary shit.. no sir, don't like it at all.
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I'm hearing you but thats not new. I think the current round of abs has the bugs worked out for the most part.
 
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