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So, Dave Ramsey....on car buying....

I’ve had a couple insulated shopping totes/bags in the trunk in the past. But for the past year, you either just outright can’t use your own bags or....gasp, you have to bag your own groceries if you bring your own.
Ugh, the plastic bags. Now thicker because they charge you for them. :wtf

As far as groceries goes, we get our food delivered now. It's a waste of my time to trek up and down the aisles looking for food. If my ice cream is melted, I get online and process a refund for it. :laughing
 
My High School did teach personal finance, actually. Though it's possible that my school was more the exception, not the rule.

Anyway, Dave Ramsey's teachings, per his website:

- Save $1000 as fast as you can. Having a rainy day fund is not exactly a novel concept. This isn't bad advice, but it's not exactly unique. It's also something that varies wildly in how difficult it can be based on someone's income. Someone making under 30k a year may never be able to even get to the next thing no matter how hard they try. Just advocating that people should get 2, 3, 4 jobs (which you said he does) is a reductive way to blame poor people for systemic problems in our economy

- Pay Off All Debt (Except the House) Using the Debt Snowball.
So, his (not actually his idea) debt snowball method is at best debated by personal finance experts. Paying off the smallest debt first doesn't really make sense if the smaller debts are stable and low interest, while you have a larger debt that is very high interest. Also, the implicit assumption that most people can afford a mortgage on a house, 35% of the population rents. That does give a hint about the target market here.

- Save 3–6 Months of Expenses in a Fully Funded Emergency Fund
See the first comment again, but additionally, depending on what 3-6 months of expenses looks like, this could mean 10-20k or even more sitting in simple savings instead of investing it. Most families can't or at least shouldn't, horde that much money without at least putting most of it in a safe investment portfolio.

- Invest 15% of Your Household Income in Retirement
This is again very basic advice, though honestly I think 15% is low.

- Save for Your Children’s College Fund
Again, very basic advice. Though, presuming people will have children. One problem you get by ignoring societal economic trends is ignoring that the rate of people getting married and having children is going down pretty rapidly. Likely because both can be very expensive and people are trying to live within their means.

- Pay Off Your Home Early
This is dumb advice. It feels good to pay off the home, sure, and I 100% think people should refinance to a mortgage that gives them the lowest interest rate possible, which generally are also shorter term (15 year rates can be 2% lower in interest than 30 year rates), however, especially if you have an interest rate that is around or below inflation, You would be better off financially to keep the mortgage and invest the funds you would otherwise use to pay it off for long term growth.

Other issues, he seems to be of the mindset that if you can't pay for your education in cash, you just shouldn't go to college. Even acknowledging that student loans are predatory, college is still by far one of the best ways to guarantee financial comfort in life.

So, even ignoring the fact that thanks purely to his families wealth and connections, Dave Ramsey never really faced financial hardship in his life, even when he went bankrupt due to his own bad decisions with real estate. Ignoring the fact that he fires people for having premarital sex. Ignoring that he spent the last year downplaying or denying COVID. Ignoring that he acted contemptuous towards people who were helped by the stimulus payments. Ignoring all of that, his advice is still very reductive, basic, and sometimes actually bad for people.

IMO, the first expense people should cut out of their budgets to free themselves of debt is the $40 he charges to go to one of his dumb events, or the $130 he charges for his fake university course tape, or however much people spend on his books.



You seem to have a good understanding of personal finance, not everyone does. I reiterate again, if you listen to his show you will be appalled at financial decisions many people make. Your assumptions about his "financial freedom" process are basically all correct. But, and the big miss you have is that his system works flawlessly for those that have no personal finance knowledge and are deep in debt. It is a very draconian system that just works. Of course there are other ways to be financially free and have sound investments, but for people that tend to stay in debt and make bad financial decisions the system helps them stay on track.
 
Look at moneybags over here. Maybe he'll buy us all a car!

:rolleyes

My assumption here in this particular forum is that all you guys are fairly bucks up. We all own motorcycles, which, in the USA are toys. And not particularly cheap to own and operate, at that. So $40K for a car shouldn't be a burden.:wow
 
My assumption here in this particular forum is that all you guys are fairly bucks up. We all own motorcycles, which, in the USA are toys. And not particularly cheap to own and operate, at that. So $40K for a car shouldn't be a burden.:wow

That's one assumption. But used motorcycles are 1/4 the price of used cars, there are people here who can only afford that...
 
That's one assumption. But used motorcycles are 1/4 the price of used cars, there are people here who can only afford that...

Some, but not the majority. You seem to be doing OK based on the machines you own.:thumbup
 
I read one of Dave Ramsey's books. I did the single mom thing in SF for many years making like 60k-75k a year. I had some credit card and tax debt. Over the last two years I've paid all of it off by writing and sticking to a budget while also working multiple jobs. A big raise and promotion at the day job helped, too.

I found out about Dave Ramsey about half way through the process and liked some of his ideas but not others. For example, I'll still save for retirement even with some other obligations which he would disagree with.

I did buy an inexpensive car and a truck last year, in cash. I don't want another payment.
 
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My assumption here in this particular forum is that all you guys are fairly bucks up. We all own motorcycles, which, in the USA are toys. And not particularly cheap to own and operate, at that. So $40K for a car shouldn't be a burden.:wow

Well that's a pretty stupid assumption to begin with...
 
You seem to have a good understanding of personal finance, not everyone does. I reiterate again, if you listen to his show you will be appalled at financial decisions many people make. Your assumptions about his "financial freedom" process are basically all correct. But, and the big miss you have is that his system works flawlessly for those that have no personal finance knowledge and are deep in debt. It is a very draconian system that just works. Of course there are other ways to be financially free and have sound investments, but for people that tend to stay in debt and make bad financial decisions the system helps them stay on track.

It's not a flawless system by a longshot. kneejerk rejection of debt can be just as damaging to people as overuse of debt.

Honestly this seems a lot like a 12 step program for finance more than anything else.
 
Well that's a pretty stupid assumption to begin with...

It's not, really. In many third world countries, and even in parts of Europe motorcycles are used as primary transport. The Honda motorcycle company makes millions per year.
Even on a motorcycle forum here in the US, primary transport is rare.

Unless you have some statistics to cite, I'd say your reply was fairly stupid, and written just to be contrary.:rolleyes
 
My assumption here in this particular forum is that all you guys are fairly bucks up. We all own motorcycles, which, in the USA are toys. And not particularly cheap to own and operate, at that. So $40K for a car shouldn't be a burden.:wow

That's a colossal assumption
 
He's not incorrect about the average prices of vehicles. Used vehicles too in the last 24 months.

OTOH he has to drive a lot for work, and lives in Burney. Odds favor that he isn't some high earner, he's just a dude that lives in BFE and has a low CoL, and can splurge on slightly more expensive vehicles.
 
Is it possible for you to not be a dick?

Holeshot is a multiple BARFIE Award Winner and he as always been real righteous to me personally, even in threads we don't agree in.

Have you considered that he is not the problem there?
 
Holeshot is a multiple BARFIE Award Winner and he as always been real righteous to me personally, even in threads we don't agree in.

Have you considered that he is not the problem there?
The Renault Alliance was a Motor Trend Car of the Year, and some people liked it.

.
 
My assumption here in this particular forum is that all you guys are fairly bucks up. We all own motorcycles, which, in the USA are toys. And not particularly cheap to own and operate, at that. So $40K for a car shouldn't be a burden.:wow

Less than 10% of households in the US have an income greater than $200k/yr.
Even at that level, after taxes, housing, healthcare, and retirement savings, I just can't see a $40k+ new car being a sensible proposition - it might not even be possible if that housing is in the Bay Area.

I don't think I've spent $40k total on motorcycles and cars in a decade of buying them and fixing them. :rofl /having them fixed.
 
Less than 10% of households in the US have an income greater than $200k/yr.
Even at that level, after taxes, housing, healthcare, and retirement savings, I just can't see a $40k+ new car being a sensible proposition - it might not even be possible if that housing is in the Bay Area.

I don't think I've spent $40k total on motorcycles and cars in a decade of buying them and fixing them. :rofl /having them fixed.

Maybe not sensible, but not unreasonable. We make less than 200k, max our 401k, have a 4k mo mortgage, and are paying @1k/mo on a 4 year 50k loan on our Audi comfortably. That take home at 200k is in the region of 8k/mo net after retirement deductions...
 
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