The debate about gear rages on

[Marcoose]

...I have a responsibility to you because I ride with flipflops, a beenie helmet with a mohawk? I don't think so.

Just curious, do the people that stop after hitting another person or vehicle do so solely because they're under the threat of prosecution, and not at all because of guilt, empathy, sympathy, compassion and responsibility?

 

[mean dad]

Like any other overly broad question, the answer is some yes, some no. Why do you ask?

 

[Bravnik]

Gear nazis bug the fuck out of me, as their rant seems to imply that ATGATT offers superior and nearly invincible protection.

First rider I knew who died on a bike was ATGATT.

If the gear nazis were actually serious about their spiel, they'd stop fetishizing the gear so much and work on injury reducing skills: I have never seen a gear nazi recommend a rider get some kind of training to deal with getting thrown to the ground hard. If Judo teaches novices how to survive hitting the ground hard, or football players learn how to get blindsided and not break a wrist when landing, there's no reason why a training curriculum couldn't be developed to help a rider when OH SHIT time arrives.

I don't understand this type of thinking. Learning how to fall is not going to do anything to help prevent your skin from peeling off at 60mph as you tumble down the road. Falling right can prevent broken bones and such but will do NOTHING to prevent the loss of skin, fingers, toes, face etc.

You see, not every accident is preventable and if you are safe rider then about the only thing that will get you is something you don't even see coming. Some accidents equal death no matter if you are on a motorcycle or in a car with 20 airbags protecting you. Some things you just can't prevent from happening. ATGATT people I think realize this and are not delusional on this fact.

What ATGATT prevents are those things that ARE preventable. Road Rash is not fun. A cracked skull is not fun. A broken ankle is not fun nor are ground off fingers/toes. Gear can prevent all of that and then some, if worn.

ATGATT simply prevents those things that ARE preventable. If you simply wear a certain level of protection you can prevent a certain level of damage. The less protective gear you wear the more preventable damage you can/will incur.

That is probably the best way to explain it. If you lay down your bike doing 70mph and slide for say 60ft. If you are wearing full gear you will most likely have very little damage from such a slide. Now if you're wearing just a helmet shorts and a t-shirt, well then, you will probably not walk away and need to go to the emergency room to deal with the rash. If you don't slide but tumble, gear will probably do very little for the broken bones you will probably get. However, with gear, you will just have the broken bones and not a ton of rash on top of it.

Now of course if you do the same thing but in doing so you get ran over by a car, well, no matter what gear you have it will certainly not matter. So no amount of gear will help you survive an accident bad enough to cause death (With the exception of a helmet of course), what it can do is prevent a certain level of damage from a totally SURVIVABLE accident and can be the difference between walking away or a long stay in a hospital.

So by all means, ride your own ride. However, don't ever be dumb enough to think ATGATT guys are delusional to the amount of protection gear provides because they are not. They simply want to limit the damage done by a survivable accident while knowing damn good and well the gear will do little to prevent death (except the helmet). To me the delusional ones are the ones that argue the merits of gear. Will it protect you from a fatal accident? No. Will it protect you from the preventable aspects of a survivable accident? You bet.

Oh and just to be clear on my stance. I think you should wear gear to the level of riding you intend to do. Whenever I ride I wear Boots, Gloves, Leather Jacket, Helmet at a minimum. If I'm riding around town then I will most likely wear jeans. If I intend to get on the freeway then Leather Pants it is. Same for the twisties, touring etc. What you will never see me in is T-Shirt, Shorts, No Gloves etc. I simply will not ever go that route as I feel it's just asking for trouble.....but that is my choice. Growing up I rode in TX and rode many a time with only shorts on. Yes, no shoes, shirt, Helmet, Gloves etc. That was back in the 80's and I rode dirt bikes and enduro's and was young and knew no better and thought I was invincible. I now know better and realize that I'm as fragile as an egg

 

[angelsndevils]

I've got 2 story's of gear saving me from crashing.

1. Riding hwy 253 west of cloverdale at high speed and this stupid turkey vulture jumps off the bank and tries to fly away. I see that he is not going to make it and throw out the anchor. I'm either going to catch him right in the bikes head lights or right in my chest. At the last minute I take my eyes Off the road and kiss the tank while shrugging my shoulder pads into the bottom of my helmet. He hits me right in the top of the head. Made me see stars but I rode it out. Killed the little fucker. My neck and shoulders were sore for a week and if the pads hadn't lined up with the helmet I think I would of broke my neck. It was like hitting a bag of cement at 90 mph.

Story2. Again on hwy 253 was doing about 75-80 just minding my own business when out of the corner of my eye I see a large green object flying through the air. Was either an apple or pear that some d-bag (probably kids) had thrown at me. Hit me right in the chest. Luckily I had my velocity gear juggernaut upper body armor on and the fruit just disintegrated on contact. It hurt a little but without the juggernaut it probably would of took me out.

GEAR CAN PREVENT AN ACCIDENT!!!

 

[louemc]

I've got 2 story's of gear saving me from crashing.

1. Riding hwy 253 west of cloverdale at high speed and this stupid turkey vulture jumps off the bank and tries to fly away. I see that he is not going to make it and throw out the anchor. I'm either going to catch him right in the bikes head lights or right in my chest. At the last minute I take my eyes Off the road and kiss the tank while shrugging my shoulder pads into the bottom of my helmet. He hits me right in the top of the head. Made me see stars but I rode it out. Killed the little fucker. My neck and shoulders were sore for a week and if the pass hadn't lined up with the helmet I think I would of broke my neck. It was like hitting a bag of cement at 90 mph.

Story2. Again on hwy 253 was doing about 75-80 just minding my own business when out of the corner of my eye I see a large green object flying through the air. Was either an apple or pear that some d-bag (probably kids) had thrown at me. Hit me right in the chest. Luckily I had my velocity gear juggernaut upper body armor on and the fruit just disintegrated on contact. It hurt a little but without the juggernaut it probably would of took me out.

GEAR CAN PREVENT AN ACCIDENT!!!

 

[Breaking Daniel]

In light of this awesome debate, and revnort's hilarious artistry, I have decided to change my avatar (with his permission of course). That is all.

 

[revnort]

In light of this awesome debate, and revnort's hilarious artistry, I have decided to change my avatar (with his permission of course). That is all.

 

[Breaking Daniel]

I've got 2 story's of gear saving me from crashing.

1. Riding hwy 253 west of cloverdale at high speed and this stupid turkey vulture jumps off the bank and tries to fly away. I see that he is not going to make it and throw out the anchor. I'm either going to catch him right in the bikes head lights or right in my chest. At the last minute I take my eyes Off the road and kiss the tank while shrugging my shoulder pads into the bottom of my helmet. He hits me right in the top of the head. Made me see stars but I rode it out. Killed the little fucker. My neck and shoulders were sore for a week and if the pads hadn't lined up with the helmet I think I would of broke my neck. It was like hitting a bag of cement at 90 mph.

Story2. Again on hwy 253 was doing about 75-80 just minding my own business when out of the corner of my eye I see a large green object flying through the air. Was either an apple or pear that some d-bag (probably kids) had thrown at me. Hit me right in the chest. Luckily I had my velocity gear juggernaut upper body armor on and the fruit just disintegrated on contact. It hurt a little but without the juggernaut it probably would of took me out.

GEAR CAN PREVENT AN ACCIDENT!!!

First off, I'm glad you rode out of both situations unharmed. Regardless of the gear debate, I don't like ANYONE getting hurt, but I do have to contest your fruit story to a certain point.

Someone else pointed this out prior, and it's a simple concept to understand. With or without gear, that piece of fruit (or any solid object) still impacts your chest with the exact same force. Which means that even in a tee-shirt, you would have been fine in terms of getting knocked off your bike or being thrown back. It's the same force. In that case, the gear may have saved you from receiving a bruise or welt, which neither is a crash causing injury.

My best advice for you my friend, is to avoid highway 253 at all costs since it apparently has it out for you.

 

[angelsndevils]

Someone else pointed this out prior, and it's a simple concept to understand. With or without gear, that piece of fruit (or any solid object) still impacts your chest with the exact same force. Which means that even in a tee-shirt, you would have been fine in terms of getting knocked off your bike or being thrown back. It's the same force. In that case, the gear may have saved you from receiving a bruise or welt, which neither is a crash causing injury.

Thanks for the input. Now in all seriousness, I'm no math wiz so what I'm about to say is just from the small amount of common sense that I have. That object has a mass figure and impact inercia figure. I have no idea what these figures are at all. With that said... The PSI of that round surface could of been bone breaking (Many times the act of performing CPR will break the sternum) whereas the juggernaut suit displaced the impact over a roughly 10"x12" area of hard plastic and padding. A broken chest could of been crash inducing. Think potato gun. Either way its quite a bit of speculation but still a possibility.

 

[Marcoose]

Someone else pointed this out prior, and it's a simple concept to understand. With or without gear, that piece of fruit (or any solid object) still impacts your chest with the exact same force. Which means that even in a tee-shirt, you would have been fine in terms of getting knocked off your bike or being thrown back. It's the same force. In that case, the gear may have saved you from receiving a bruise or welt, which neither is a crash causing injury.

The object is traveling at constant speed, therefore acceleration is zero and so is force. Think pressure instead of force. Instead of getting the mass concentrated in one small spot, the gear spreads the blow over a larger area. That's why bullets are skinny.

 

[GAJ]

I've got 2 story's of gear saving me from crashing.

1. Riding hwy 253 west of cloverdale at high speed...

2. Again on hwy 253 was doing about 75-80...

GEAR CAN PREVENT AN ACCIDENT!!!

So can slowing down. ..but I'm guessing that's not going to happen in your case.

DataDan might argue that you are an example of a rider who increases velocity with increased gear.

I wear gear (but not full on one piece race leathers along with my f/f, moto gloves and moto boots) and have been known to go those kind of speeds on wide open roads, (like sections of 253), but I can see how some who don't wear full race gear all the time might exchange a slower speed for less gear and feel justified in doing so.

 

[louemc]

Thanks for the input. Now in all seriousness, I'm no math wiz so what I'm about to say is just from the small amount of common sense that I have. That object has a mass figure and impact inercia figure. I have no idea what these figures are at all. With that said... The PSI of that round surface could of been bone breaking (Many times the act of performing CPR will break the sternum) whereas the juggernaut suit displaced the impact over a roughly 10"x12" area of hard plastic and padding. A broken chest could of been crash inducing. Think potato gun. Either way its quite a bit of speculation but still a possibility.

Sorry to see the so called math BARF hitting You.

Riders that have been hit by anything...know the reality of the hit.

That's rider's with actual experience...And as we see, over and over...Not all riders have that.

 

[redtail]

I've got 2 story's of gear saving me from crashing.

Since we're at the anecdotal phase, I have a story that impressed me years ago.

It was in the 80's and I was riding back from Santa Cruz on Hwy 17 on my R5 350. I was coming around a right hander and saw a Harley rider coming the other direction in the number two lane. He must have hit sand or something because he lost the front and low sided, I figure he was going around 55 or so. That dude slid on his ass for what seemed like forever and his momentum pulled him to the outside of traffic. I pulled over but couldn't get over to the other side due to traffic. He was wearing leather pants, jacket and gloves that must have been made out of steel. The bike came to rest on the side with the cars fortunately missng him and his bike. He gets up, casually walks over to his bike dusting himself off. I got his attention and he gave me a thumbs up and rides off. I sat there for a few minutes before I took of...

 

[angelsndevils]

Riders that have been hit by anything...know the reality of the hit.

That's rider's with actual experience...And as we see, over and over...Not all riders have that.

Don't even get me started on softball sized boulders coming off the back tire of KX500's!!

 

[redtail]

Don't even get me started on softball sized boulders coming off the back tire of CR500's!!

FTFY

 

[angelsndevils]

Never felt one because they were always losing. Cr's wont even start unless they are on a perfectly groomed track! KX is the king!!

 

[louemc]

Never felt one because they were always losing. Cr's wont even start unless they are on a perfectly groomed track! KX is the king!!

, I had a KX500..last air cooled one, dual spark plugs...OMG in the desert where Ya got room...Well OMG says it all.

My 495 KTM was easier, so faster...But the KX was just explosive...so there was a fun factor there...
A lot like My ZX10, it is ready to kill me, in a heart beat

 

[Ant]

Lemmee see if I get this:

The same forum that goes balistic when they think the government is telling people what they should or shouldn't do for their own good is telling people what they should wear for their own good.

 

[danate]

Lemmee see if I get this:

The same forum that goes balistic when they think the government is telling people what they should or shouldn't do for their own good is telling people what they should wear for their own good.

Yeah because Barf's right and the gubment is wrong.

 

[Breaking Daniel]

Since we're at the anecdotal phase, I have a story that impressed me years ago.

It was in the 80's and I was riding back from Santa Cruz on Hwy 17 on my R5 350. I was coming around a right hander and saw a Harley rider coming the other direction in the number two lane. He must have hit sand or something because he lost the front and low sided, I figure he was going around 55 or so. That dude slid on his ass for what seemed like forever and his momentum pulled him to the outside of traffic. I pulled over but couldn't get over to the other side due to traffic. He was wearing leather pants, jacket and gloves that must have been made out of steel. The bike came to rest on the side with the cars fortunately missng him and his bike. He gets up, casually walks over to his bike dusting himself off. I got his attention and he gave me a thumbs up and rides off. I sat there for a few minutes before I took of...

Was he on an HD Fatboy by chance, and also have a thick Austrian accent? Yup, must have been terminator...