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The debate about gear rages on
- Thread starter Breaking Daniel
- Start date
1footdown
a little gimpy
I hit the ground with 1 hand, riding my bicycle in high school. maybe 15-20 MPH. I peeled back a big chunk of the heel of my palm, about the size 2 quarters. I had to go into Walgreens and buy some scissors to cut it off (it was all scrunched up and sticking out 90degrees - i couldn't wash it and then flip it back on). the knee scrapes were typical, but I learned how hard it is to get by with a palm injury.
Bandaids were impossible on the palm, so I discovered LiquidSkin. I think it took about a month or 2 to fill in. Note to all: Wear gloves for bicycle riding, too!
corndog67
Pissant Squid
The hardest part is wiping with your off hand.
redtail
only ones and zeroes
Yes, you're absolutley right, its a fasinating read but dated. However, what happens when skin meets asphalt still applies.
GAJ
Well-known member
That's quite the piece of armor!
No abdomen protection, however, so clearly not "ATGATT" worthy.
http://www.highvelocitygear.com/juggernaut.html#prettyPhoto
Marcoose
50-50
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And as I rolled out yesterday from a crash scene, I was thinking of the rider wearing half helmet, jeans, street shoes ... and this morning I learned ... "The guy had a broken foot though. It's kind of hard standing up when the toes are facing towards the back and the bones are sticking out in the front."
I can understand choice. A pair of entry level BILT boots cost $59.
http://www.cyclegear.com/CycleGear/...oof-Leather-Motorcycle-Boots/p/44030_59409_10
My 3-hour visit to the ER in 2011 cost $30K and I didn't even have a busted finger nail. Assuming the same $30K to check nothing else is broken, how many more thousands of dollars to fix his foot?
There's some fishy with the argument of choice. Choice is great when it's between a third undergraduate diploma or a master degree, between cable or satellite, between dating a man or a woman. Choice sucks when it's between condom or not, credit or cash, gear or not. An enormous contingent of the population can't choose to save their lives, literally. They're neither stupid or ignorant, just in the haze of the choice and land of the free rhetoric. It's inhumane to give certain choices to certain persons. It's cruel, unfair and unloving too.
I suppose I have the choice to let my son figure out by himself not to touch the stove burner right after cooking. SPC couldn't do a thing. I suppose I have the choice to let my daughter figure out by herself that certain attires in certain places will get her raped. But what a SOB I would be. Yet let fellow riders choose and learn on their own seems OK. Dunno about that.
I can understand choice. A pair of entry level BILT boots cost $59.
http://www.cyclegear.com/CycleGear/...oof-Leather-Motorcycle-Boots/p/44030_59409_10
My 3-hour visit to the ER in 2011 cost $30K and I didn't even have a busted finger nail. Assuming the same $30K to check nothing else is broken, how many more thousands of dollars to fix his foot?
There's some fishy with the argument of choice. Choice is great when it's between a third undergraduate diploma or a master degree, between cable or satellite, between dating a man or a woman. Choice sucks when it's between condom or not, credit or cash, gear or not. An enormous contingent of the population can't choose to save their lives, literally. They're neither stupid or ignorant, just in the haze of the choice and land of the free rhetoric. It's inhumane to give certain choices to certain persons. It's cruel, unfair and unloving too.
I suppose I have the choice to let my son figure out by himself not to touch the stove burner right after cooking. SPC couldn't do a thing. I suppose I have the choice to let my daughter figure out by herself that certain attires in certain places will get her raped. But what a SOB I would be. Yet let fellow riders choose and learn on their own seems OK. Dunno about that.
corndog67
Pissant Squid
So what are you saying, we shouldn't have a choice what to wear since you saw an accident? Let's expand on that a bit. Lot of heart disease out there, better not let people eat cheesburgers or maybe corn with butter on it, they aren't smart enough to make that choice themselves. Alcohol is a poison and destroys the liver. Outlaw that too. Guns kill people, better 100% outlaw those too. Cars cause air pollution and use up our resources, everyone drives a Prius now. Or some other electric piece of shit that most of us don't want. Motorcycles are pretty dangerous, better outlaw those, too. Several people got killed last year skydiving, OUTLAWED. Same with scuba diving. 1 or 2 people a year die from shark attacks while surfing, no more surfing. Speaking of cars, the speed limit is 65-75 depending on where you live. Now all cars are speed governed, shit, we'll just make it so they only have 36 hp, an old VW would only do 65, that will work for every one.
So you see an accident, and all of the sudden, you don't want us to have a choice any more. Maybe you should just not go out, and you won't see any more accidents.
angelsndevils
gas burning o-zone killer
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simi510
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2slow
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Totally false--and yet even cops hold this attitude. We gear up because we recognize there are horrible drivers behind the wheels of Hondas out there that threaten our lives with a high level of incidence. Collect whatever other threats that you like in there with the Honda drivers--here I'll help you get started: Big ass black trucks, taxis, muni, Prius drivers, animals, spillage, street rails, painted surfaces, etc. There are plenty of solid reasons to wear gear from head to toe without the need of aggressiveness on the part of the rider.
Lets deal with reasons to not wear gear. Anyone that believes this is a free country really isn't paying attention--so you can drop that argument because it just makes you look ignorant, or stupid. Which leads nicely into my next paragraph.
There are two reasons to not wear gear. Ignorance, and stupidity. You might have an argument with financial ability, but anyone that's tried to successfully pull that one off has lost--used/free gear abounds. People that don't know any better will be the ignorant lot, and those folks actually have potential to be better protected with something so simple as education. Which as seasoned riders is our responsibility to share.
Stupid people will come up with the most amazingly creative reasons to not wear gear. It's hilarious to what extremes they will claim. You can lump in lazy with stupid as it equates to the same results. There truly is nothing that can be done with this group of people--arguing with them is an exercise in futility. It is best to just let them work their way out of the gene pool. Although it can be entertaining to make fun of them.
As to laws requiring people to gear up they are asinine, and clearly don't understand how society functions (unless of course you believe the man is employing these sorts of laws to disable society). If you consider how you learned to be responsible (questionable for some around here) it was when you were given responsibility. By electing helmet/seat belt/baby seat/ etc laws we remove personal responsibility, and place it at the hand of the enforcers. Now it's the cops responsibility for you to wear a helmet. These sorts of idiotic laws produce an irresponsible society. Do you really want to live in a place full of irresponsible people?
If you want to ride without gear that is your choice. Getting bent out of shape because people recognize you for what you are by not wearing gear is just confirming their observation--that is you are either ignorant, or stupid, and thankfully there's an easily available solution to that state. Gear up.
Ok now lets take this ^^^ but instead its coming from an Cager telling it to a motorcyclist.
If you want to ride a motorcycle that is your choice. Getting bent out of shape because people recognize you for what you are by riding motorcycle around dangerous drivers is just confirming their observation--that is you are either ignorant, or stupid, and thankfully there's an easily available solution to that state. Don't ride motorcycle.
I would support speed limiters on cars
I don't think that I would characterize the gear debate as "raging on" more than the issue simply "lingering around" 
Everyone who rides agrees that wearing gear is a good thing if you crash. Those that choose not to are doing just that; choosing not to, as in the acceptance of additional risk being their own personal expression of image or defiance. An attitude that has been and will always be a pervasive part of any number of generally "risky" endeavors such as motorcycling.
For my part, I'll never ride without full gear, but something tells me that the crazy MF'ers who do, are a significant part of the drive that fuels the demand for the crazy sport bike machines we all love to ride. So for me and a lot of other people, we get to have our cake and eat it too, because we get the crazy powerful sexy machines, AND we protect our bodies as much as possible. Very much like I love having a lot of high quality rock climbing hardware so I can do my weekend excursions to local climbing walls and ascending and rappelling the 70 feet Eucalyptus trees in my back yard for fun and fitness while understanding that that equipment exists because of people who spend days ascending half dome; a risk I'm not willing to take at this time
So when someone does a wheelie on the freeway, lands into a tank slapper and crashes with the commensurate road rash, I will indeed be VERY, VERY sorry and hope they recover quickly, but I will also say thank you for your contribution!
Everyone who rides agrees that wearing gear is a good thing if you crash. Those that choose not to are doing just that; choosing not to, as in the acceptance of additional risk being their own personal expression of image or defiance. An attitude that has been and will always be a pervasive part of any number of generally "risky" endeavors such as motorcycling.
For my part, I'll never ride without full gear, but something tells me that the crazy MF'ers who do, are a significant part of the drive that fuels the demand for the crazy sport bike machines we all love to ride. So for me and a lot of other people, we get to have our cake and eat it too, because we get the crazy powerful sexy machines, AND we protect our bodies as much as possible. Very much like I love having a lot of high quality rock climbing hardware so I can do my weekend excursions to local climbing walls and ascending and rappelling the 70 feet Eucalyptus trees in my back yard for fun and fitness while understanding that that equipment exists because of people who spend days ascending half dome; a risk I'm not willing to take at this time
So when someone does a wheelie on the freeway, lands into a tank slapper and crashes with the commensurate road rash, I will indeed be VERY, VERY sorry and hope they recover quickly, but I will also say thank you for your contribution!
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DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
Blow it out your ass.
You don't have the slightest fucking idea why someone might choose less than full gear depending on the situation.
I have no patience with smug, self-anointed authorities who believe that their perception of riding risk, of the value of protective gear, and of the cost of using it is God's Own View.
As I have already said in this thread: Get over yourself.
corndog67
Pissant Squid
You're assuming everybody crashes. They don't, no matter how much the smug fuckers want them to. Whether its the car drivers that can't split lanes, or the full gear guys wishing the no gear guys to crash, to prove they were right.
MCSFTGUY
Seriously Disturbed Calm
I am with Dan and Robert on this one. I choose to be more visible than to worry about all of the gear all of the time. I have made this choice by reading the various studies, reserch papers and information on gear and conspicuity. My choice is that I would rather do all that I can to avoid the crash in the first place. Yes my winter and wet riding gear is protective and Hi-viz... but summer time not at all, levi's hiking boots, gloves yellow helmet and sometime of yellow long sleeve shirt or vest.
There was reference to seeing a broken foot in a crash and that the foot was turned the wrong way and the rider was not wearing proper gear. Best boots in the world would not have prevented this injury.
I spoke with my buddy who has been looking at vehicle and motorcyce crashes as a collision reconstructionist for about 30 years... did it on the PD for about 15 years.... his response... major crashes rider still got hurt no matter what gear they were wearing... gear did prevent some injuries in some lesser crashes. His opinion, a minor crash is a minor crash... gear cut back on some injuries in these crashes... a moderate or major crash is just that and gear doesn't change the severity of the crash.
I have to say that one of the biggest things I have seen out of this thread, there are those with the strong believe in gear who seem to think it is going to save them.... this makes me wonder if some of these riders might be taking unnecessary chances when they ride.
There was reference to seeing a broken foot in a crash and that the foot was turned the wrong way and the rider was not wearing proper gear. Best boots in the world would not have prevented this injury.
I spoke with my buddy who has been looking at vehicle and motorcyce crashes as a collision reconstructionist for about 30 years... did it on the PD for about 15 years.... his response... major crashes rider still got hurt no matter what gear they were wearing... gear did prevent some injuries in some lesser crashes. His opinion, a minor crash is a minor crash... gear cut back on some injuries in these crashes... a moderate or major crash is just that and gear doesn't change the severity of the crash.
I have to say that one of the biggest things I have seen out of this thread, there are those with the strong believe in gear who seem to think it is going to save them.... this makes me wonder if some of these riders might be taking unnecessary chances when they ride.
redtail
only ones and zeroes
I have to say that one of the biggest things I have seen out of this thread, there are those with the strong believe in gear who seem to think it is going to save them.... this makes me wonder if some of these riders might be taking unnecessary chances when they ride.
Hmmm, not me, what I've seen in this thread is a lot of assumptions heaped on those who disagree with the other position.
My point was if you crash. Everyone will not crash that is true. However, if you do my statement applies. Even for you. If you're lucky to ride for years and not crash, then fantastic! I doubt anyone wishes someone pain just to prove a point. I personally wish everyone a safe ride as I'm sure most people do
Sorry but not true. With other significant stats the same - like weight, relative velocity, and the like - a softer object like a rubber ball or a tomato impacts with a smaller force than a harder object like a metal ball or a rock. Empirically and theoretically demonstrated.
corndog67
Pissant Squid
My point was if you crash. Everyone will not crash that is true. However, if you do my statement applies. Even for you. If you're lucky to ride for years and not crash, then fantastic! I doubt anyone wishes someone pain just to prove a point. I personally wish everyone a safe ride as I'm sure most people do
I've actually had people tell me, "I hope you crash". One guy I used to work with, that I passed in traffic every day. So I told him, "I might crash, but I absolutely know that your liver is going to fail with the amount you drink". We didn't get along real good after that.
Plenty of people wish we'd crash. And I'm sure, there are a few gear Nazi's that want to see it also, just to prove they're right.