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The debate about gear rages on

sashish said:
I will just leave this here.
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Yeah right,...A person wasn't wearing that helmet when that abrasion/grinding happened.

Who knows how it happened, but there are tons of ways it did happen.

Spare Helmet Strapped to a back/side spot on bike, that ends up sliding on it's side down the road..is most likely..But there are other ways I happened.

None of the ways include someone wearing it, though.
 
Supposedly someone was wearing it. In a get off at 70 MPH. However I agree it looks kind of unlinkely and it was probably on the side of a bike that was sliding.
 
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Threads about gear always end up being dick whipping contests...lets put some academics in here.

- I think your getting pretty anal if your gonna argue full leathers vs mesh gear for daily commute.

Gixxergirl1000 said:
What- like leathers are some sort of magical suit transported from the Land of Valinor in Middle Earth, blessed by a Wizard with a spell of protection, granting wisdom and experience to all that wear it? Damn, dood... they're n00bs, not schizophrenic... or online gamers completely lost to reality... :laughing
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Not sure about the harry potter vibe, but I sure do feel like a Shinobi, just missing a katana strapped to my back, albeit more geared than just black cloth ;)

- Calling people who don't wear gear stupid and ignorant is in itself pretty ignorant. Who are you to dictate what a person does or doesn't do?

- As far as insurance goes, insurance is on the rise both in auto and motorcycles. Insurance rates are directly related to the cost incurred by the insurance company. So basically, if their costs go up from paying out claims/injuries etc... so do ours. The economy also comes into play. So gearless related injuries CAN potentially cause a blip in the rates.

To use it in a collective argument in this case is dumb, because it would take hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONs of riders to be constantly be gearless and crashing and ending up in the hospital for that to happen.

You want to know the real reason for motorcycle insurance rate increases?
Although a bit old, but still a reasonable source for information.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/motorcycleinsurance03/Motorcycle%20Insurance%20Web/trd.html

Average property damage losses per claim were 65 percent larger for motorcycles than for other private passenger vehicles. Compared to other private passenger vehicles, motorcycles also had worse loss experience on theft, vandalism, and other non-crash risks.
Profits on motorcycle liability coverage offset losses on property damage coverage.
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Although, I'm having a hard time finding statistics on gear vs no gear. Most data is aggregated on helmet vs no helmet.

I did however find that in the previous decade, we reached a all time low on motorcycle fatalities as helmet usage increased. BUT in this past decade, fatalities increased.
Statistics is a funny thing, because we need to account for the increase boom in population and the number of those riders who where helmet/no-helmet/helmet w/o gear/helmet w/ gear. So many factors, not enough detailed data.


SO! With that being said. Please stop using the insurance rate going up bullshit. Car insurance rates increased over 6% in the past few years just from people being idiots. So should we start having idiotometer at the DMV tests?
 
babyhuyx said:
Who are you to dictate what a person does or doesn't do?
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It all depends on the type of doing. Would you let somebody give you a vasectomy without a governmentally-dictated and -sanctioned degree in medicine, state board approvals, and whatnot? Or fly your next plane to Hawaii? A little dictatorship to provide a minimum standard of safety isn't all that after all, eh?

babyhuyx said:
...it would take hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONs of riders to be constantly be gearless and crashing and ending up in the hospital for that to happen.
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You must know some real cheap hospitals. My 3-4 hours in the ER cost $30,000. Thankfully for gear, I didn't even had a scuffed toe nail.
 
InNoHurry said:
It all depends on the type of doing. Would you let somebody give you a vasectomy without a governmentally-dictated and -sanctioned degree in medicine, state board approvals, and whatnot? Or fly your next plane to Hawaii? A little dictatorship to provide a minimum standard of safety isn't all that after all, eh?

You must know some real cheap hospitals. My 3-4 hours in the ER cost $30,000. Thankfully for gear, I didn't even had a scuffed toe nail.
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?????? That doesn't even constitute a reasonable analogy for this context. But I'll play along. Why not just take another step and make bicyclist wear full leather gear. Since even low speed crashes can give some nasty road rashes right?
Why stop there, lets give them full face helmets too and riding boots. This is the same fucking argument people like to bitch over have NSA tapping. How much dictatorship is too much and how much is too little.
We're in a fucking democracy and free country. People bitch about certain laws and restrictions but then turn around and call for legislators to bring on new ones as long as it supports your personal views.
Obviously, someone somewhere high up there thought helmets are important enough to make it a law because the data supports it. Until such a thing exists for full gear,
Get off the fuckin high horse. You want gear to be mandatory? Start a petition and call your local rep. If it passes, then you know the consensus. If it doesn't then you also will know the consensus. But until that happens, don't force your opinions on people who have free will to choose what they do.

And you know how much 30 grand is compared to annual insurance claims? Hardly a fuckin blip. Insurance overall is a trillion dollar industry. Which makes me wonder if you even read what I wrote regarding insurance.
EDIT: You know what I'll keep playing while I'm at it. Estimating about 7 million riders in the US. Lets assume they all crash and go to the ER with a 30,000 fee like you all at the same time. And they all have full insurance. (30,000 * 7,000,000) / 1,000,000,000,000 = .21. Barely over a 1/5th of the entire auto insurance industry.

Roughly 90,000 accidents were reported in 2006. About 5,000 were fatalities. 33% of the 5000 were alcohol-related. 90,000 accidents * your cost of 30000 = 2,700,000,000 estimates to about 0.27 percent. This is the most extreme worst case scenario for insurance companies. So you tell me.

A 2009 Insurance Institute for Highway Safety’s Highway Loss Data Institute report found that:

More than half of motorcyclist deaths involved at least one other vehicle.

42 percent of two-vehicle fatal motorcycle crashes involved a vehicle turning left while the motorcycle was going straight, passing, or overtaking the vehicle.

A little less than half of all motorcycle driver deaths involved no other vehicle.

Of the 1,791 motorcycle deaths that involved only the motorcyclist

48 percent were speeding.

42 percent had blood alcohol concentrations of 0.08 percent or higher.
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Gear or not, your not going to survive without injury from a vehicle collision if you survive at all. Excessive Speeding and Alcohol are all rider stupidity and error.
I wear my gear because I choose to wear it. But I'm not harping at someone and calling him stupid or an idiot because he likes to ride with sweaters and jeans.
 
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22 pages, 427 posts.

Nobody can argue that going gearless is safer, nobody can argue that gear is a magic forcefield.

All of my minor getoffs (2, 1 at speed, 1 very low speed) would have resulted in injury had I not been geared up, one would have been a significant head injury.

That being said, I've been known to ride without a helmet on occasion and without a full complement of gear on more occasions.
 
babyhuyx said:
Threads about gear always end up being dick whipping contests...lets put some academics in here.

- I think your getting pretty anal if your gonna argue full leathers vs mesh gear for daily commute.



Not sure about the harry potter vibe, but I sure do feel like a Shinobi, just missing a katana strapped to my back, albeit more geared than just black cloth ;)

- Calling people who don't wear gear stupid and ignorant is in itself pretty ignorant. Who are you to dictate what a person does or doesn't do?
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1. I don't have a dick, and not being into S&M, won't be whipping one any time soon... ;) But hey, whatever floats your boat! :p :teeth
2. I think textile gear is just fine. Mesh would be a concern, because I personally don't think it offers adequate protection (but it's better than nothing- unless it gets melted into the wounds)... but textile does a great job. I think we can all agree, however, that gear is better than no gear in the event you hit the deck.
And if I were commuting on my bike, I'd be wearing textiles, too. Prolly a 2-piece ADV type thing.
Can you wear those over a skirt? Or am I just hiking that sucker up to my waist?? :laughing
3. I don't care if you feel like Sailor Moon wearing gear... as long as you wear it! Well, and don't tell me about the Sailor Moon part, cuz that's just gonna make me cry, or stab my mental eyeballs out...
4. I figure someone not wearing gear is not educated on the subject. The reason I think that is due to dozens and dozens of conversations over the course of many years with undergeared/no gear riders/pillions. And while it's strictly anecodal, about 80% of the time, it's been lack of education, over and over again. Nothing wrong with having a friendly dialogue with someone about gear, particularly when you genuinely care about their well-being.
Admittedly, there may have been a few guys who got in trouble with their girlfriends after I talked to them about their lack of protection... but I sorta figured they earned that by not informing their girlfriends of the risk... :teeth

And I personally am not dictating anything (Nannystate BS is too much as it is)... I just want to make sure people are aware of the risks. If they are, and choose to ride without gear, then that's their decision... and they can (hopefully) live with the consequences should Bad Things happen. Personal responsibility FTW!

And, for the record, I don't think gear/no gear is having a huge impact on motorcycle insurance. Helmets make a difference... but I don't know that the police are even collecting information about what the rider was wearing at the accident scenes... anyone have info on that?
 
sashish said:
https://pay.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/1j72st/discovered_just_now_that_my_brothers_helmet_from/
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Holy effing shit... :wtf

Apparently, there were cardboard boxes scattered over the freeway from some asshole not securing them properly. As my brother was riding past, a box was picked up by the wind, hit him in the face. He fell backwards off the bike, and slid into an HOV lane where a bus was coming.

This is where people's skepticism start. The bus didn't quite HIT him. He slid under the bus (between the two front wheels, thank god) and some part of his clothes got hooked onto the bus. The scrape on his helmet is so deep and even because he was dragged by the bus until it came to a stop. If he had just come to a stop on his own, the helmet wouldn't be like this, but since it took as long for him to stop as the bus took, this is what happened.
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Wow... Thanks for finding that!
 
Gixxergirl1000 said:
1. I don't have a dick, and not being into S&M, won't be whipping one any time soon... ;) But hey, whatever floats your boat! :p :teeth
2. I think textile gear is just fine. Mesh would be a concern, because I personally don't think it offers adequate protection (but it's better than nothing- unless it gets melted into the wounds)... but textile does a great job. I think we can all agree, however, that gear is better than no gear in the event you hit the deck.
And if I were commuting on my bike, I'd be wearing textiles, too. Prolly a 2-piece ADV type thing.
Can you wear those over a skirt? Or am I just hiking that sucker up to my waist?? :laughing
3. I don't care if you feel like Sailor Moon wearing gear... as long as you wear it! Well, and don't tell me about the Sailor Moon part, cuz that's just gonna make me cry, or stab my mental eyeballs out...
4. I figure someone not wearing gear is not educated on the subject. The reason I think that is due to dozens and dozens of conversations over the course of many years with undergeared/no gear riders/pillions. And while it's strictly anecodal, about 80% of the time, it's been lack of education, over and over again. Nothing wrong with having a friendly dialogue with someone about gear, particularly when you genuinely care about their well-being.
Admittedly, there may have been a few guys who got in trouble with their girlfriends after I talked to them about their lack of protection... but I sorta figured they earned that by not informing their girlfriends of the risk... :teeth

And I personally am not dictating anything (Nannystate BS is too much as it is)... I just want to make sure people are aware of the risks. If they are, and choose to ride without gear, then that's their decision... and they can (hopefully) live with the consequences should Bad Things happen. Personal responsibility FTW!

And, for the record, I don't think gear/no gear is having a huge impact on motorcycle insurance. Helmets make a difference... but I don't know that the police are even collecting information about what the rider was wearing at the accident scenes... anyone have info on that?
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THANK YOU. Someone that makes some logical sense on here.
I admit I watched sailor moon when I was younger....but then again I watched dragonball z too :twofinger
I'm sure the skirt would be pushed up by the adv pants, but I don't see why not....
But yea umm I wasn't able to find anything on gear wise. All helmet stuffs.
 
babyhuyx said:
THANK YOU. Someone that makes some logical sense on here.
I admit I watched sailor moon when I was younger....but then again I watched dragonball z too :twofinger
I'm sure the skirt would be pushed up by the adv pants, but I don't see why not....
But yea umm I wasn't able to find anything on gear wise. All helmet stuffs.
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:wow
:|
:shame

Where's a fork? My mental eyeballs need skewering... and it's all YOUR fault! :x
 
Gixxergirl1000 said:
And, for the record, I don't think gear/no gear is having a huge impact on motorcycle insurance. Helmets make a difference... but I don't know that the police are even collecting information about what the rider was wearing at the accident scenes... anyone have info on that?
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Connie,

I just looked over my police report for my accident and other than cringing a bit looking it over again, it's amazing how much information is recorded. Distances, positions, debris fields etc etc...

There is actually a short paragraph describing what I was wearing, "Rider was wearing full faced helmet, leather full body protective gear, under clothing protective riding armor... etc"

There was also a description of the visible damage to my helmet and riding gear.
 
Feanor said:
Connie,

I just looked over my police report for my accident and other than cringing a bit looking it over again, it's amazing how much information is recorded. Distances, positions, debris fields etc etc...

There is actually a short paragraph describing what I was wearing, "Rider was wearing full faced helmet, leather full body protective gear, under clothing protective riding armor... etc"

There was also a description of the visible damage to my helmet and riding gear.
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That's interesting... Now we just need some student to do a thesis on it. Because there is literally no statistical study based on atgatt
 
revnort said:
See below:
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Still not buying it. Just reading what someone put on WTF site, means nothing.

Has a, here is a helmet I can take a picture of, and make up a far fetched story , that sounds plausible to people that never got ran over by a bus..and submit it to WTF, for my 15 minutes of fame.


And of course Where this happened and at what time, is omitted.

Before the got clothing caught under the bus happens..There is impact.

Impact that intantly kills every forest animal, I've ever ran over.
 
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