The debate about gear rages on

[Terminal G]

I haven't read a single response, but here is my view.

I wear gear because I have slid down the road in leather and I have slid down the road in shorts and a t-shirt; leather is better for the skin.

There are times I opt out of wearing protective pants, but I never give up helmet, gloves, jacket, gloves, and boots.

But that's just me. If another person goes out in nothing but flip-flops and thong I really don't give a rip. We all take risks every day, and we all make the decision before we swing a leg over a bike.

Wear what you want. I don't care.

 

[Breaking Daniel]

I haven't read a single response, but here is my view.

I wear gear because I have slid down the road in leather and I have slid down the road in shorts and a t-shirt; leather is better for the skin.

There are times I opt out of wearing protective pants, but I never give up helmet, gloves, jacket, gloves, and boots.

But that's just me. If another person goes out in nothing but flip-flops and thong I really don't give a rip. We all take risks every day, and we all make the decision before we swing a leg over a bike.

Wear what you want. I don't care.

Am I to understand that you "Double Glove?"

Most healthcare providers recommend against such a thing, as one of the "gloves" may tear...I'm just sayin'.

 

[R1-Limited]

Wear your gear or your will go blind

 

[tuxumino]

no one has mentioned the inherent risk in wearing gear.
Time was when all bikers were MEN (say it in a deep voice) and all gear was BLACK.
Now we have all the colors of the rainbow in gear and males have started wearing other colors than just black, in fact males have started to color co-ordinate their gear: blue yamaha, blue helmet, blue jacket and pants, blue gloves and even blue boots. Kawasaki riders are the worst, they end up looking like giant neon fashion frogs.
Hanging out at the Redwood TT I've heard other riders make despairing comments about other riders fashion sense or lack there of. next thing you know the PoPo will be writing tickets for mismatched gear.
Yes your honor I realize I was wearing white boots after labor day but....

 

[MCSFTGUY]

Why do all of the good threads happen when I am out of town, and at 10 pages, I have not read all fo the posts.

First of IMHO Daniel and Data Dan have it right. The biggest issue is crash prevention rather than injury prevention.

I know that there are some medical people out there that have seen a lot of road rash and that is a bad injury. I have my own road rash scars on my arms. But is road rash alone a fatal injury?

As a friend of mine always says, what does the data say... what do the studies say about gear and how effective it is?

Here is a little something to consider regarding gear. A study out of France shows that car drivers saw riders wearing bright colors sooner than they saw riders wearing darker colors.... the greys and the black. There is bright colored gear out there, but yellow is not the dominate color in "protective" gear. Knowing this, I choose to wear anything bright yellow over a darker colored protective jacket.

 

[louemc]

Why do all of the good threads happen when I am out of town, and at 10 pages, I have not read all fo the posts.

First of IMHO Daniel and Data Dan have it right. The biggest issue is crash prevention rather than injury prevention.

I know that there are some medical people out there that have seen a lot of road rash and that is a bad injury. I have my own road rash scars on my arms. But is road rash alone a fatal injury?

As a friend of mine always says, what does the data say... what do the studies say about gear and how effective it is?

Here is a little something to consider regarding gear. A study out of France shows that car drivers saw riders wearing bright colors sooner than they saw riders wearing darker colors.... the greys and the black. There is bright colored gear out there, but yellow is not the dominate color in "protective" gear. Knowing this, I choose to wear anything bright yellow over a darker colored protective jacket.

"A study out of France" ?

 

[Ogier le Danois]

I have a confession to make. Sometimes, when I am feeling feisty, I ride about without any gear on. No helmet, no gloves, no boots, no jacket, no armored pants. Sometimes I am wearing swim trunks and that is all.

I don't do this often, but sometimes you gotta let it all hang out.

 

[asthmodeus]

On the other hand, a person who wears gear may be anticipating a higher likelihood of crashing, as they are going to be riding more aggressively.

What a load of crap.

tho most peculiar, EVERY time some nimrod comes wide into my lane going way too fast or passes me in a corner like they're hell bent for capturing the fkn TT, it's a power ranger. go figure.

that said, i'm usually in a 'stich or a vanson jacket and knee protection and always wear boots and gloves.

 

[slowblood]

I'm starting to think 2013 members are actually older members looking for a bit of fun because they know BARF intimately and know exactly how to troll us.

This is the truth.

 

[ALANRIDER7]

Go outside and rub your palm into some sun-soaked asphalt. Put some pressure into it. Now imagine all of your weight sliding on it at 65mph.

 

[redtail]

I have my own road rash scars on my arms. But is road rash alone a fatal injury?

Maybe you could elaborate on why you would say this. Is this your only criteria, is the injury possibly fatal??

 

[SlideSF]

no one has mentioned the inherent risk in wearing gear.
Time was when all bikers were MEN (say it in a deep voice) and all gear was BLACK.
Now we have all the colors of the rainbow in gear and males have started wearing other colors than just black, in fact males have started to color co-ordinate their gear: blue yamaha, blue helmet, blue jacket and pants, blue gloves and even blue boots. Kawasaki riders are the worst, they end up looking like giant neon fashion frogs.
Hanging out at the Redwood TT I've heard other riders make despairing comments about other riders fashion sense or lack there of. next thing you know the PoPo will be writing tickets for mismatched gear.
Yes your honor I realize I was wearing white boots after labor day but....

I can't prove it, since old photos are all black-and-white, but I would guess that in the Old Days, when "Men were Men", the leather was mostly brown, not black.

 

[danate]

I think what it comes down to is the attitude towards it. We are a society of severe judgement. We all do it. I consider everyone who drives a Prius to be a self-serving a-hole who smells their own farts for fun. Truth is they could be a brain surgeon or teacher and/or help society greatly when they're not driving. When they're in their Prius though, they can eat shit.

This is kind of the modern social attitude and it is pretty annoying whenever you look at it as a 3rd party. You see a rider cruising in jeans and a t-shirt with a 3/4 helmet and you think "what an idiot." Well that was me on Sunday cruising to my dad's house. Am I aware of the risks if I were to crash? Of course. However, my risk mitigation of crashing was probably at its highest at that time (e.g. riding under 40mph, in no hurry, on a relaxed position touring bike etc.). If I'm going to be riding for longer, faster, or on my sportbike I'll be in all my gear with a full face helmet. Everything has its place and time and any reasonably intelligent person can make good judgements about it.

The thought of mandating more gear than a helmet is just over-legislative. The top killers in the US are still heart disease, strokes, obesity etc. I just read the other day that suicide is on par with or even overtaking vehicle crashes for deaths. Shall we ban hamburgers, sodas, salt, being sad? Maybe we can walk up to someone at In-n-out and say "Don't you know that you are killing yourself by eating that???"

We all pass judgements on others. As we mature, we can learn to temper them and maybe improve our social interactions from the sad state they're in. Friendly encouragement to wear gear, especially for newer riders is great and should be promoted. TV commercials like the one I saw in the videos forum would be great.

 

[ToraTora]

Apologies

.

 

[MCSFTGUY]

"A study out of France" ?

Hey you can laugh all you want... but they take riding seriously over there. If you look at the European crash numbers, they are going down while the US is going up, and their numbers also include scooters.

The amount of research and data coming out of Great Britian and Europe puts us to shame.

A study out of Great Britian released in Feb of this year addresses the helmet testing standards and how bad they are both here and over there.

Far more research out of Australia and New Zealand then out of the US also. Australia studied the effects of ATGATT in motorcycle crashes as to its effectiveness....

 

[MCSFTGUY]

Maybe you could elaborate on why you would say this. Is this your only criteria, is the injury possibly fatal??

I think along the lines of crash prevention and crash survivability. For me, I will risk road rash because by itself it is not a fatal injury in order to be more visible.

Part two of this is that road rash if severe enough along with other injuries can cause death in a crash. Multiple serious injuries and then add a lot of road rash can be more than the body can handle.

 

[Breaking Daniel]

Hey Daniel--sorry if what I said was coming off the wrong way. I was asking for clarification of something you said. Your response answered my question, however it does seem that you got something completely different out of what I intended. Remember this is teh Barf--best not to take any thing posted too seriously, okay?

*takes a deep breath* Based on this, I think you're right. Apologies all around. Sometimes I get a bit worked up.

 

[king of the curves]

Holy cow!

It's not even a matter of "crying to me". How many thousands of dollars will be spent treating that guy, and what's the repercussion on our insurance rates and on medical personnel that could be busy saving lives, etc? Certainly less than the cost of proper gear.

So why are you not advocating for EVERYONE to wear a neck brace, or HANS device, or airbag jacket. Certainly the cost of those things is less than the medical bill and impact on society. Where does ATGATT stop. What is the metric and who sets it. I'm not argueing with you because I have the opposite opinion, it's just something to think about. Something to think about before we go off pointing fingers and calling people ignorant and stupid.

I grew up in a no helmet state. I started riding in 1995 and never have and never will, ever get on a moto without a helmet. But you know what, wearing a helmet only reduces my risk of death by ~42%. Linky Why ONLY 42%? There are other aspects that factor in such as neck injury from the rotational aspect of impact. The neck bending or rotating beyond specifications. Sometimes the impact just simply can't be dampened to prevent death or other major trauma to other parts of the body. Helmets do however reduce head injury by 69%. That's good news.

Now, I'm not advocating for no gear or minimal gear of whatever. I think you should wear as much as you can or want. Honestly none of my business. But the pretense that wearing gear(ATG) is some invisible force field that "saves lives" is silly. How is a set of leathers going to save my life from a left turner? Is it going to reduce or even (hopefully!) eliminate roadrash in the majority of "accidents" or get-offs? Yes, that's why we wear it, right.

You know those exclusion and voiding clauses, like, we cover you all the time but if you X with/without Y then you're on your own? I wonder if insurance companies could say --not that they need more ideas to avoid paying treatments-- we'll cover you all the time expected if your riding in shorts. Or if you're driving without the seatbelt. Would people think twice?

I'm not certain we want to live in a society like that.

 

[MCSFTGUY]

Go outside and rub your palm into some sun-soaked asphalt. Put some pressure into it. Now imagine all of your weight sliding on it at 65mph.

What if you tumble and roll along the roadway instead of slide? The collision reconstruction community might say this is the more likely scenario than sliding.... Tumbling and rolling is what I did in my worst unintented dismount from the motorcycle at about 29 mph.

 

[louemc]

Hey you can laugh all you want... but they take riding seriously over there. If you look at the European crash numbers, they are going down while the US is going up, and their numbers also include scooters.

The amount of research and data coming out of Great Britian and Europe puts us to shame.

A study out of Great Britian released in Feb of this year addresses the helmet testing standards and how bad they are both here and over there.

Far more research out of Australia and New Zealand then out of the US also. Australia studied the effects of ATGATT in motorcycle crashes as to its effectiveness....

Uhh..."A" (that's, one) study, that has flaws BTW. Out of France..That doesn't include all the other countries...
So how did You include the other countries?