The Electric Motorcycle Thread

[Killroy1999]

I wonder how the the Energica sounds.

Chains make a lot of racket and they are usually drowned out ICE noise. I guess if you like the sound of a chain or not.

 

[R3DS!X]

I wonder how the the Energica sounds.

Chains make a lot of racket and they are usually drowned out ICE noise. I guess if you like the sound of a chain or not.

The gearbox is the loudest aspect of the Energica. It has its own whine to it since the gearbox uses crosscut gears. kind of like when you put your car in reverse. I think it sounds neat but I supposed I'm conditioned to like it because I've associated the sound with performance.

 

[bigpoppa]

This video gives you a really good feel for the sound of the Energicas (starting at about 1:20):
[YOUTUBE]HxkXk7FEWMI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Killroy1999]

This video give you a really good feel for the sound of the Energicas (starting at about 1:20):
[YOUTUBE]HxkXk7FEWMI[/YOUTUBE]

Oh, yeah, that gear box is loud. I like it.

I remember the Subaru STI had strait cut gears at one point. I bet they got rid of it as the car became more mainstream/ racing rules.

"Engine Cycles" (ICE motorcycles) have strait cut gears in the transmission, but from video's of the engine off, I dont notice that sound, I usually hear the chain racket - maybe brake rotor noise.

 

[HadesOmega]

Originally Posted by bigpoppa
The SS9 is definitely more comfortable. When I bought it, I had an SR/F on order but after test riding the SS9 I canceled that order and bought the SS9 instead.

Maybe it’s because I’m older and not in the best shape but I can only tolerate my Ribelle for an hour or so before I start to feel it in my wrists, back, and sometimes my legs. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Ribelle. I think the more aggressive riding position makes it more fun on back roads but if my SS9 had the larger battery, I probably wouldn’t have bought the Ribelle.

If you’re looking at the newer Energicas and you want to do longer rides, I have no problem recommending the SS9+ over the Ribelle and Ego even though it has less power. Test riding a new SS9+ after riding to the dealer on my 13kw SS9, I definitely noticed the new one has a bit more grunt. I don’t know what if anything changed between the 13kw and 21kw SS9 but my seat of the pants impression was that the new 21kw SS9 felt more powerful. Of course it could just be my bike needing some adjustments, like too much slack in the chain or something.

Oh yeah I know what you mean my wrists were hurting pretty bad after about 100 miles on the Eva. I'm 5'10". I'm surprised my knees didn't hurt, because on the Empulse after about 40 miles I feel my knees hurting.

I wonder how the the Energica sounds.



Chains make a lot of racket and they are usually drowned out ICE noise. I guess if you like the sound of a chain or not.

Here ya go, but yeah the gearbox whine or as I like to call it the supercharger whine will drown out the sound of the chain:
[YOUTUBE]j8JDlum1Aw4[/YOUTUBE]



But also check this video out it's a Sur Ron Light Bee comparison video with the stock chain drive and a belt conversion kit. The Light Bee normally has a belt gear reduction system for the primary drive and a chain on the secondary drive. Much quieter, I think chains are best for offroad riding though and it's easier to install also. Imagine how much quieter that would be with the supermoto wheels also =P
[YOUTUBE]8yJhj1hx6Kc[/YOUTUBE]


Also Mike Corbin's SS9 for sale
https://www.calmoto.com/default.asp...motor company inc&s=Year&d=D&fr=xallinventory

 

[R3DS!X]

You might have poor body positioning if your wrists are hurting on that bike. I'm 5'11" and have never had my wrists hurt on that bike.

 

[HadesOmega]

I think it's called old age... But my wrist doesn't hurt when riding my DR650 or KLR650, those have neutral riding positions. Usually that's what happens when you get older it's harder to ride sport bikes.

 

[sk8norcal]

this escape has an electronic clutch of sorts...
170 lbs

[YOUTUBE]4FRiXN4g3Mg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[HadesOmega]

So I got to conduct an unexpected experiment/benchmark today.

I got to rent this lovely 2020 Energica Eva 107 (that's the fast one) on my birthday and apparently it's going away after this year because of the Ribelle, they don't sell the Eva with the 13.4kwh pack anymore.

Anyway here is the experiment. I had to pick the Eva up at the renter's place in Livermore which is about 24miles from my place in San Jose. The first section is fairly flat, then you go up the Sunol Grade and a bunch of other hills, then down into Livermore. It was mostly freeway.

So I rode my Empulse TT there to pick it up. It was about low 70F and around 9am when I took off. For whatever reason it was very windy on the way there as well. I noted that when I got to my destination to pick the Eva up the Empulse was at 48% SOC.

So I pick up the Eva and left the Empulse in the renter's garage, he was nice enough to charge it up for me btw. Took the Eva out for a fun day of riding and charging adventure and charged it up in my garage for the next day when I was going to return it. I did the exact same trip as the day before, the conditions were nearly identical with the wind, weather, temps, and time of day. I wore the same gear also. When I got there 49% SOC! Pretty much the same.


So your telling me a 13.4kwh Eva is about as efficient as a 10.5kwh Empulse TT? That seems to be the case. The Eva's pack has almost a 1/4 more capacity than the Empulse.

Here is my hypothesis as to why the Empulse has a few things going for it in the efficiency department:
- It's lighter by 125+lbs (ouch I'm kicking myself in the ass for not weighing the bike while I had it in my garage, shoulda busted out those scales >.<)

- It has a 6 speed gearbox, you can choose the most efficient gear to keep it at the most efficient RPM

- It is smaller and has a slimer profile for aerodynamics

- It has a windscreen, supposedly a windcreen will boost your freeway range

- It's not as powerful, that Eva is just so powerful it's hard to ride it slow haha. But I kept both bikes around 70-80mph. I noticed the Eva's speedo is off by a bit too it says your going like +5-7mph faster than GPS speed.

- I'm not sure if this is one but my bike is older and has 7000 miles, the Eva was practically brand new bought this year and had only 1600 miles. So it's not as broken in as my bike. I'm not sure if there is a break in procedure for Energicas.

So yeah interesting stuff, also if you'd like to rent an Eva 107 for a trip Trevor on Riders Share is renting his out. It was about $150 a day. Better plan your trip carefully I'll tell you that =P

 

[HadesOmega]

this escape has an electronic clutch of sorts...
170 lbs

[YOUTUBE]4FRiXN4g3Mg[/YOUTUBE]

That electric clutch is meh, it's like the brake killswitch on the sur ron or the regen throttle on my Sur Ron. These dude's rippin on Chinese bikes hard when it costs twice as much as a Light Bee and it can do the same thing. I'd say it's about as comparable to the Cake, it must feel much heavier than the Cake bike too because it is heavier.

Also they're rippin around a public park like that's alright, that's what will leads to banning ebikes, maybe that's how they do it in Hawaii I guess.

 

[dittoalex]

I accounted for Energica being 25% less efficient than the Zero S platform due to larger tire size and chain drive and worse aerodynamics.

 

[sk8norcal]

I'd say it's about as comparable to the Cake, it must feel much heavier than the Cake bike too because it is heavier.

Also they're rippin around a public park like that's alright, that's what will leads to banning ebikes, maybe that's how they do it in Hawaii I guess.

Yeah, price is pretty up there, $10.5k. I like the look much more than the Cake though.

Speaking of riding legality, with the popularity of Surron/Segway and these other high powered moped looking ebikes, I am sure there are a lot of guys riding where they are not suppose to be. Seems like these bikes are in that grey area, maybe it will get more strict in the future regarding enforcement. I been hearing Surron riders having a tough time either registering as a dirt bike or getting moped plates, and I think the OHV's are turning them away if they are showing up without either.

 

[HadesOmega]

Yeah I don't like the way Luna is handling the Sur Ron. They should have so you could register it as a motorcycle or moped. Really Moped is the best definition for the Light Bee however it's goes 30+ MPH. It's kind of stuck in between a motorcycle and a moped. But whats generally accepted is to treat it as an ebike and don't do anything dumb with it.

I'm hoping a company like CSC will license the Storm Bee in the US. Luna has made it clear that they don't want anything to do with motorcycles, they sell ebikes not motos '

Also in Europe they have the L1E Light Bee. It has all the lights and signals, it's pretty much a Light Bee dual sport. I don't know why they won't sell that over here. Once again it's Luna Cycle not wanting to sell "motorcycles"

 

[Demoni]

I got to rent this lovely 2020 Energica Eva 107

Super stoked to hear you were able to get your hands on a EVA for an extended test ride. Perfect birthday gift to yourself arty

I really like the riding position of the EVA. It can be made more comfortable by installing bar risers to bump the position up and back ~1.5". If you want a footpeg position slightly lower and more forward the rearsets used on the SS9 will bolt up.
Although I dig the styling of the EsseEsse9 I'm not the biggest fan of the riding experience. The flat seat coupled with the pegs being slightly forward of where you sit gives the sensation I'm using the bars to hold me on the bike. It's only noticeable during hard acceleration and at high speeds, just does not match my riding style.

So your telling me a 13.4kwh Eva is about as efficient as a 10.5kwh Empulse TT? That seems to be the case. The Eva's pack has almost a 1/4 more capacity than the Empulse.

I would say that the major variable in your test is the rider. It takes a heavy wrist to use up 50% of the charge in 24 miles on a 13.4 Energica. Since the EVA has almost 3 times the power output available (107kW vs 40kW) it's easier to use more electrons.
The energy required to accelerate a smaller mass is going to be less (when done at the same rate). I would be interested to know by how much?
Measuring the total frontal area of the bikes with a rider would give a basic idea of how they compare aerodynamically. Yes the Brammo is thinner however some of that advantage would be canceled out as more of the riders body is exposed.
The Brammo's transmission may enlarge the rpm range where the motor's efficiency is highest, reducing the consumption when operated in that range. The drawback is a reduction in efficiency across the entire range due to driveline losses.

 

[bigpoppa]

I would say that the major variable in your test is the rider. It takes a heavy wrist to use up 50% of the charge in 24 miles on a 13.4 Energica.

I’m sorry but I have to disagree here. On my 13.4kw SS9, The best I’ve ever done is 55 miles on 95% of my battery on a ride from Elk Grove to Antioch down the Delta. I was in Eco mode and kept my speed no higher than 55mph (indicated).

I’ve found pure freeway riding at a steady 75mph (GPS measured) I get about 45 miles on 90% battery. Any slower than 75mph on the Bay Area freeways and you’re asking to get rear ended IMHO.

It doesn’t take a heavy wrist to see the low range of the 13kw bikes, especially on the freeway.

As much as I love my Energicas, I’m also realistic enough with real world riding conditions to know that I would never plan a long ride on my 13kw bike without charging stops at least every 50 miles. The 21kw bike does better at about 80 miles of range in the same riding conditions.

Please note, I almost never go from 100% down to 0%. I usually keep my bikes charged up to 80% (or 95% when I was commuting pre-pandemic) and ride them down to the low teens unless I’m doing my bi-weekly drain to 0% and charge back up to 100%, so I can’t really comment on regular 100%-0% riding ranges. My Elk Grove ride was the only time I charged it up to 100% and rode it back down to nearly 0%.

 

[sk8norcal]

Yeah I don't like the way Luna is handling the Sur Ron.

maybe they are doing it as a way to avoid liablity... just guessing...


that's cool renting the Eva 107, (what is the weight of the bike?)
I would love to rent a Zero FX to ride in the dirt, but not sure if anyone would allow that.

 

[R3DS!X]

I think it's called old age... But my wrist doesn't hurt when riding my DR650 or KLR650, those have neutral riding positions. Usually that's what happens when you get older it's harder to ride sport bikes.

Aren't you younger than me?

 

[HadesOmega]

Super stoked to hear you were able to get your hands on a EVA for an extended test ride. Perfect birthday gift to yourself arty

I really like the riding position of the EVA. It can be made more comfortable by installing bar risers to bump the position up and back ~1.5". If you want a footpeg position slightly lower and more forward the rearsets used on the SS9 will bolt up.
Although I dig the styling of the EsseEsse9 I'm not the biggest fan of the riding experience. The flat seat coupled with the pegs being slightly forward of where you sit gives the sensation I'm using the bars to hold me on the bike. It's only noticeable during hard acceleration and at high speeds, just does not match my riding style.




I would say that the major variable in your test is the rider. It takes a heavy wrist to use up 50% of the charge in 24 miles on a 13.4 Energica. Since the EVA has almost 3 times the power output available (107kW vs 40kW) it's easier to use more electrons.
The energy required to accelerate a smaller mass is going to be less (when done at the same rate). I would be interested to know by how much?
Measuring the total frontal area of the bikes with a rider would give a basic idea of how they compare aerodynamically. Yes the Brammo is thinner however some of that advantage would be canceled out as more of the riders body is exposed.
The Brammo's transmission may enlarge the rpm range where the motor's efficiency is highest, reducing the consumption when operated in that range. The drawback is a reduction in efficiency across the entire range due to driveline losses.

Yeah I think bar risers would probably do the trick. I have bar risers on the Empulse, my wrist still hurts after a long ride but not as bad as it was with the Eva. But yeah I like the riding position of the Eva it is still sporty but it's roomy and you can ride it upright or forward. But yeah at the end of the day it's the wrists for me, not the knees or the back suprisingly. It makes me want to try that Damon Hypersport out with that shift variable ergonomics thingy.

I will say this the acceleration of the Energicas is just addicting it's just too easy to go too fast. I have to use the cruise control to keep myself in check haha. That or I guess I could change the ride mode. I do notice the speedometer is off by quite a bit compared to the GPS, it's like +5 mph and the faster you go the worse it gets. So I do find myself wanting to get on it a lot more, it's like when I drive a turbocharged car I like that feeling of the boost.

that's cool renting the Eva 107, (what is the weight of the bike?)

It's a beast I'm kicking myself in the ass for not having weighed it while it was in my garage. But according to the interwebs it comes in at 280kg which is 617lbs. As long as you are moving you don't really feel it is what I'm going to say but when you aren't moving and you tip the bike over it's very noticeable, also with slow speed maneuvers you'll feel it. I guess it weight as much as those liter sportbikes, but let's say a Tuono which is probably the closest gas bike to the Eva is 472lbs. That's a huge weight difference. The Empulse is 475lbs and if you hop on the Empulse after riding the Eva you'll be amazed how much lighter and nimble it feels. I guess its like going from a literbike to a 600cc sportbike. I did get to ride the Ribelle and it is noticeably lighter and easier to ride at lower speeds.

 

[sk8norcal]

It's a beast I'm kicking myself in the ass for not having weighed it while it was in my garage. But according to the interwebs it comes in at 280kg which is 617lbs. .

damn, how is it that heavy... (it's lame they don't list weights on their website)

zero srf (powertank) is listed at 498 lbs (who know if that is accurate though...)

 

[sk8norcal]

unless I’m doing my bi-weekly drain to 0% and charge back up to 100%, .

is this something recommended by the manufacturer?