The Official 2016/2017 NFL Thread

[Bay Arean]

Forgive me. I'm not seeing it?
The Raiders were in the SB? They were better than the 9ers back in 2001. And they are, at least on paper, better than the 9ers now. How does "bottom rail on top" apply here? I guess I don't understand the whole 9rs v Raiders thing. I'm not originally from the Bay Area...transplanted in '86. I don't rag on Raiders fans simply for the sake of doing so. I'm not one of "those" 9er fans.

I think it;s just that the media favors the 49ers. Put on the Sports Leader, almost all Niners. I think Bill Walsh and the team was just too much for the loyal Raider fans who had the double whammy of having their team move to fookin' LA, which almost guaranteed a permanent sense of transience to the team. Who needs the workin-class emotional brutes when you can sniff the white wine fumes of the glitterati?

I guess there is a separate radio network to hear the Raiders games even tho Sports Leader has two channels now. And perhaps good ol Al burned too many bridges as well and it will take a lot of charm to change it, especially since the team seems on the verge of just goin away.

The worst aspect of "team loyalty" by fans of either squad has the same characteristics of being stupidly antagonistic to any perceived local rival but the Raider fans have just suffered too much, even though that squad has a truly great history. There is no excuse for being an a-hole about your team versus "them" but there is a decent grievance at work, emotionally if not practically.

And what is surprising is, that in terms of money, you cannot make the argument that media is just "following the money." The Raiders brand, I believe, is among the two most successful brands for national money-making (along with the Steelers, amirite?).

And I think Niner fans that hate the Raiders are a bit more inexplicable, honestly, even tho' I'm a Niner fan. It's not like they haven't had their team very well-promoted, regarded, etc etc. No excuse. We're all from the Bay Area, says the local yokel.

 

[Johndicezx9]

The Bay Area is funny like that, and I grew up far enough away from the "Peninsula v. East Bay" thing that I didn't even know it was "a thing"...

I'm a Raiders and Giants fan, they were teams I gravitated towards as a kid. My first Giants game was in May 1971. Hard to forget that stuff.

I forgot who it was, possibly Dubbington and mikeV, I think they're the opposite from me, big 9ers and A's fans. Lots of cross bay affiliations like that.

I'm not unhappy when the 9ers or the A's win, and I'm behind them when they're playing teams I can't stand, but am I happy when a team I like that has been a joke for than a decade begins to show some promise? You bet.

 

[CocoLoco]

Yeah, I'm feeling the depths of MLB despair being an A's fan. Even so you can generally catch me sporting an A's ball cap when I'm out and about. Funny, I don't own any 49er ball caps. I just don't associate ball caps with anything but baseball.

 

[Zerox]

I'm a Raiders and Giants fan, they were teams I gravitated towards as a kid.

It's good to cheer for one AFC team and one NFC team like that.

 

[Bowling4Bikes]

all this

yeah, fairly accurate. good enough. something to be mentioned is the pervasive thoughts about being east bay (blue collar) and peninsula (white collar). Sort of what's going on with the Warriors now...moving to white-collarville. The stigma is associated with dispassionate fans and the corporate feel of a home game. which was a falsehood at candlestick, but a truism at Levis. was also true at ATT park for the giants...until they starting winning world series. now the corporate fans are passionate. but I digress.

Definitely motivated by the move to LA. but many former Raiders fans didn't convert to 9ers fans. Many just became Football fans. Many have never forgiven them. I don't particularly blame them...but in all reality, those fans are not Oakland fans, they were just hurt that Al would throw away loyalty (in a business model means absolute zero).

In all reality, there's no rivalry vs Raiders and 9ers except geography. The 9ers have their own fish to fry, in Seattle and ARZ. The Raiders with KC and Denver. It's a novelty when they play each other.

...but let's not forget the novelty: the Raiders own the last win, so NAH NAH

 

[mikev]

It's been a while since there's been more promise with the Raiders, especially given Al's final years, and beyond.

For me, they haven't proven anything yet, but my 9er fan friends seem to be a bit shell shocked by the last 3 years, wearing the same perplexed look I had when Al drafted Jacarcuss, or signed Moss, or any of the other really shitty decisions he made.

Were they not around for the post-Mariucci years? I mean, Dennis Erickson, Mike Nolan, etc...

It's not like the Niners have been an elite team forever

 

[Johndicezx9]

Yeah, I'm feeling the depths of MLB despair being an A's fan. Even so you can generally catch me sporting an A's ball cap when I'm out and about. Funny, I don't own any 49er ball caps. I just don't associate ball caps with anything but baseball.

I had a Raiders shirt that I picked up at the first game I went to in LA in 1983, ended up leaving it Sweden with an ex in the early 90's... The only thing I have now is a slouch baseball hat that I picked up at a game in 2012 as it was raining and I only brought a knit watch cap. Couldn't see with my specs getting wet.

Were they not around for the post-Mariucci years? I mean, Dennis Erickson, Mike Nolan, etc...

It's not like the Niners have been an elite team forever

Yeah, but ya never had the Evil Emperor Al guiding the team, driving away talent not only on the field, but the coaching staff, and the front office....

Kinda like it seemed recently it was news when the 9ers lost, and news when the Raiders won....

And yeah, if the Raiders start winning, I'll want the fans to shut up as well....

 

[mikev]

there was a discussion this morning that he may be milking his 'sore' throwing arm beyond what is reasonable. Sort of a statement about him not wanting to be there. Punk may be cashing his checks and then tanking on purpose...wouldn't be surprised.

Wouldn't you? ... especially to that (mis)management team?

Someone has to have Kap's best interest at heart, may as well be Kap.

Flip side: who would want a guy who isn't willing to do what he can for his teammates? So maybe he is protecting his health rather than "waste" it on the 49ers. This may get him moved to another team, but who would want to play alongside a shitheal like that? It's one thing to play your way onto another team. It's something completely different to "ride pine" your way to another team.

From Maiocco:

TB: "Colin & I have sat down. We sat down a couple of weeks ago. Colin is here to compete. All this stuff from the offseason is behind us."

 

[Bowling4Bikes]

From Maiocco:

TB: "Colin & I have sat down. We sat down a couple of weeks ago. Colin is here to compete. All this stuff from the offseason is behind us."

yeah I'm sure that was the most honest and forthright convo ever...by either side

 

[Bay Arean]

yeah I'm sure that was the most honest and forthright convo ever...by either side

Until York gives up the team, or at least divorces Baalke, there is zero credibility coming from management in my book. ZERO. The way they handled Harbaugh situation was just so outrageously crude and transparent. There is no "their side" to be told that would make it all make sense. that's my working understanding, at any rate. And I still regard Kaep with enough humanity to think the kid was worked over by 'em to the point where he couldn't function anymore. Yes, he was a diamond in the rough, somebody who probably never got the first-class coaching that his talent deserved, but I cant disregard him, really. Something was obviously going on through all of this. To call him a pretender, or a fake talent just ain't right. But with this management, it's like a long family dispute in slo-mo for him to stay here. Or at least it was.

Prove me wrong, Lord, prove me wrong.

Editing in: I think Trent Baalke should take over Jim Rome's show. Perfect fit.

 

[CocoLoco]

yeah I'm sure that was the most honest and forthright convo ever...by either side

+2?

Is is possible this article from Cam Inman last November was on target?

SEATTLE -- Colin Kaepernick's season, and quite possibly his 49ers career, is over.

 

[Eldritch]

It's been a while since there's been more promise with the Raiders, especially given Al's final years, and beyond.

For me, they haven't proven anything yet, but my 9er fan friends seem to be a bit shell shocked by the last 3 years, wearing the same perplexed look I had when Al drafted Jacarcuss, or signed Moss, or any of the other really shitty decisions he made.

The thing that confuses me most about that is the Niners have been a nonstop epic pile of suck for like almost 20 years. They had a good couple of seasons with Harbs and like 2 decent seasons with Mooch in like 2001. Everything else has been from somewhere between, "meh," to garbage fire since back when they were a good team in the 80's and mid 90's.

When they started having a couple of good seasons under Harbs, the Niners guys came blasting out like Joe Montanan never ended and winning is what they do! Which is weird, because before the great and rightly revered, Bill Walsh, they were perpetual losers for like the first 4 decades the team existed, who lost more than they won and never took a championship. The great Golden age laste dfo ran amazing run of about 15 years or so (less than the losing time, they lost for a few years, went back to being good for like, 2 years, then sucked for a decade, and when they won a couple again, it is all, “Niner Way, We are Champions!”

I swear, for some of these fucking guys it is like they just use the first 15 years of watching football in their youth as a blue print for a team’s identity and it never changes for them. It is almost as if these ninnies don't exhaustively study the entire chronological history of a team and watch tons of archival footage from before they were born in order to formulate a rational and unbiased opinion of a team’s identity.


Amateurs.

From Maiocco:

TB: "Colin & I have sat down. We sat down a couple of weeks ago. Colin is here to compete. All this stuff from the offseason is behind us."

I am seriously of the opinion that the guy has always been emotionally weak and his competitive spirit is broken. I think his injury is emotional and he won't be fit to get back in and complete again. Certainly not on this team. I've been questioning character on the dude for a few years, since the Miami Hat incident, really.

 

[Eldritch]

It's good to cheer for one AFC team and one NFC team like that.

I kind of like the Texans as my AFC team, because J.J. Watt is too damn fun to watch and I fell like every Texans victory is a thumb in the eye to Jerry Jones.

I also like the Steelers, because they are family.

 

[CocoLoco]

The thing that confuses me most about that is the Niners have been a nonstop epic pile of suck for like almost 20 years. They had a good couple of seasons with Harbs and like 2 decent seasons with Mooch in like 2001. Everything else has been from somewhere between, "meh," to garbage fire since back when they were a good team in the 80's and mid 90's.

When they started having a couple of good seasons under Harbs, the Niners guys came blasting out like Joe Montanan never ended and winning is what they do! Which is weird, because before the great and rightly revered, Bill Walsh, they were perpetual losers for like the first 4 decades the team existed, who lost more than they won and never took a championship. The great Golden age laste dfo ran amazing run of about 15 years or so (less than the losing time, they lost for a few years, went back to being good for like, 2 years, then sucked for a decade, and when they won a couple again, it is all, “Niner Way, We are Champions!”

I swear, for some of these fucking guys it is like they just use the first 15 years of watching football in their youth as a blue print for a team’s identity and it never changes for them. It is almost as if these ninnies don't exhaustively study the entire chronological history of a team and watch tons of archival footage from before they were born in order to formulate a rational and unbiased opinion of a team’s identity.


Amateurs.



I am seriously of the opinion that the guy has always been emotionally weak and his competitive spirit is broken. I think his injury is emotional and he won't be fit to get back in and complete again. Certainly not on this team. I've been questioning character on the dude for a few years, since the Miami Hat incident, really.

The 9ers didn't win any championships until Walsh but they were in a few playoffs with solid teams. Teams that had good chances to win 'ships had they gotten over the hump. I have no doubt in my mind that the '70 team would have beaten the Colts. Just couldn't muster enough of a run game against that front anchored by Lily.

 

[Eldritch]

The 9ers didn't win any championships until Walsh but they were in a few playoffs with solid teams. Teams that had good chances to win 'ships had they gotten over the hump. I have no doubt in my mind that the '70 team would have beaten the Colts. Just couldn't muster enough of a run game against that front anchored by Lily.

Sure, they had some up games, they weren't all disaster for the duration, but until the mighty Walsh, they still lost more than they won as a matter of course and never took it all home. Not exactly a legacy of champions, you know? I mean, that run in the 80's and early 90's is rivaled only by the modern Pats in it's greatness, there is no question, but that is only a small piece of a team with a history going back to the Post War Era when my granddad used to watch them at Kezar.

 

[Johndicezx9]

I still love the vision of Jeremy Shockey's immediate change of expression when he was hamming it up on the sidelines for the TV cameras and then realized the game was over and the New York Giants lost in that 2002 playoff game at the Stick.... That was pure comedy. That was 15 years ago now...
Wish I could find a gif of that.

 

[stigeon]

I still love the vision of Jeremy Shockey's immediate change of expression when he was hamming it up on the sidelines for the TV cameras and then realized the game was over and the New York Giants lost in that 2002 playoff game at the Stick.... That was pure comedy. That was 15 years ago now...
Wish I could find a gif of that.

they didn't have gif's back then

(i'm sorry i don't know why i thought that was funny i know it's stupid)

 

[CocoLoco]

I still love the vision of Jeremy Shockey's immediate change of expression when he was hamming it up on the sidelines for the TV cameras and then realized the game was over and the New York Giants lost in that 2002 playoff game at the Stick.... That was pure comedy. That was 15 years ago now...
Wish I could find a gif of that.

Even though seeing Shockey shocked was worth it...the 9ers should have lost that game. It showed the next week when the Bucs beat the ever livin' snot out us. But, hey, at least we saved the Giants from being drubbed so there is that. Eldy should show more gratitude.

 

[Zerox]

Even though seeing Shockey shocked was worth it...the 9ers should have lost that game.

Why? They scored more points than the Giants in the game.

JFC! There is no sickeningly self-promoting GM in the NFL with more media quotes than Baalke for the 49ers. This guy can STFU, it's embarrassing and shits on the head coach's power to be in charge of his players. I don't even know the name of the GM for most teams...I couldn't even tell you the GM's name for the team I root for....but this guy, always with the self-promotion.

This ain't the draft, they got helmets on now...I want to hear a head coach talking about the players, not the GM.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-gm-on-kaepernick-fatigued-is-the-better-word

 

[Eldritch]

Even though seeing Shockey shocked was worth it...the 9ers should have lost that game. It showed the next week when the Bucs beat the ever livin' snot out us. But, hey, at least we saved the Giants from being drubbed so there is that. Eldy should show more gratitude.

Dude, I was in a Niners pizza joint when that game was on. LOL, there was ONE guy in a Jets jersey in the place and I said, "look, bro, this game keeps going on like this, you are going to have to take me to the hospital when these guys lose it." Then it all fell apart. I was seriously taunted by a fucking 8 year old.