Took a test ride on a Zero DS electric bike

[rattrap]

Wonder if you could get some playing cards in the spokes of that bad boy.

Playing cards in those spokes might result in a sound closer to a V-Twin rather than an inline 4

 

[Archimedes]

It depends on the category. For us (MX/SMR), the lack of maintenance makes a pretty big difference - 3-5 hour oil changes, 20 hour top-ends, and 50 hour rebuilds add up fast, not to mention the value of your time spent riding vs wrenching. Some folks love to wrench... those aren't our customer.

The other value is that almost every rider we've had on the bike is faster, safer, and more in control on our bike vs a gas SM. The journalists we've had on the bike cut laps at Sonoma 4 seconds faster on the electric on DOT tires than the gasser on slicks, and top racers run times that are about the same as gas (again despite the tires) and comment on how much less tiring the electric is.

You're comparing it to a specialized gas sumo. I'm comparing it to an equally priced typical street motorcycle. For example, for about the same money as a mid sized eBike, I can get a Tuono V4R with 160hp, traction control, ABS, monster brakes, solid handling, great sound and a bike that does everything from commuting to track days to light touring well and without range limitations. Other than fuel/maintenance cost difference or the desire to be cool, why on earth would anyone spend the same money on a mid sized eBike?

 

[KrustyKruser]

I would get an e-bike to have ready during federal shutdowns. Pt. Reyes and Yosimite are wide open playgrounds now, and without a noisy engine running you can do as you please without being detected...

 

[redtail]

I would get an e-bike to have ready during federal shutdowns. Pt. Reyes and Yosimite are wide open playgrounds now, and without a noisy engine running you can do as you please without being detected...

I like the way you think!

 

[Losmeister]

I would get an e-bike to have ready during federal shutdowns. Pt. Reyes and Yosimite are wide open playgrounds now, and without a noisy engine running you can do as you please without being detected...

rimshot

 

[JMardy]

I'm still wondering what kind of buyer demographics would go for an electric bike that expensive. I see a $3k electric scooter being reasonable for short commutes. For a $13k electric bike, are we talking only rich people with lots of disposable income?

That's my problem with them.
Part of me wants to get a Brammo Empulse R but then it's sitting right next to an Aprilia RSV4 and I'm like "fuck it" burn the dinosaur.

PS can't afford a new Aprilia either.

 

[JMardy]

I agree. Our bike, the Brammo, and the Mission all have distinctive high-pitched whirring sounds that can be heard at least a block away. Sounds like a fucking Tie fighter, and it's enough to get a pedestrian or trail user's attention. I'll admit it CAN sneak up on you at the track in the midst of thumpers with race pipes.

I work right down the street from you guys and I often hear one of these bikes blasting up Potrero. It's definitely noticeable.

 

[ohio]

I can get a Tuono V4R with 160hp, traction control, ABS, monster brakes, solid handling, great sound and a bike that does everything from commuting to track days to light touring well and without range limitations.

Yup, and for this reason, literbike equivalents are at the far end of our roadmap. Electric has its advantages and they're in maintenance, power density, and power delivery. Gas has it's advantages, and they're in energy density (i.e. range), and energy cost. I'm all about choosing the right tool for the job, and right now I would agree that the right tool for "everything from commuting to track days to light touring well and without range limitations" all in one bike is a gas bike.

I think you'll see electric proliferate in urban-oriented formats in the next 5 year though.

 

[U26A1]

For what it's worth, I've owned an Empulse R since January, and have put about 9000 miles on the thing so far. I can share plenty of thoughts if anyone wants them.

Two big things to keep in mind:

1.) You will never, ever, ever begin to even come close to making up the price difference in gas costs. Unless you're comparing to something at a Panigale price point. Yes it's hilarious to annoy your friends by riding in silent circles around them while they are filling up at the gas station, but I'll have to keep the bike for 20 years or something to make up the dollars. If you're even beginning to think about doing it for the gas costs, go buy a $1000 SV beater instead. After sweet rebate dollars back, net cost to me will be about $16k.

2.) It cannot do long distance. And I don't mean that in the sense that that phrase usually entails -- like "oh ha ha you have a supersport with clip-ons, you can't do long distance on that." You can ride cross country on an uncomfortable bike, you can bend all sorts of motorcycle rules and genres and use bikes for things they're not supposed to do . . . . but this is different. It literally in the actual sense of the term 'cannot' cannot do long distance.

Those two being out of the way, if you are still interested in getting an electric, let me share with you my impressions of owning the bike:

• Handles amazingly. Utterly goddamn amazingly. The combination of the things you can do with a frame that doesn't have an engine in the way + the weight distribution of no gas tank + no engine vibration + no gyroscopic force of reciprocating mass = holy SHIT.
• Goes off the line like nothing I've ever experienced. If you get good at the powerband (yes, there is a powerband) it goes off of other gears pretty damn well too. Once you are at speed it feels like a 650 twin, sort of.
• Maintenance is tires, brakes, chain, fluids, and that's about it.
• Cost of electricity is negligible. I was all nervous checking my first month's PG&E bill for the huge dent I was sure the bike was going to make, and I couldn't even tell the difference.
• I love having the gearbox. It's a bit industrial (apparently it's from a supermoto racing application) and takes some getting used to not operating the clutch at starts and stops, but it is awesome to have.
• The noise is fantastic.
• Bonus: you get to make yuppies plugging in their Priuses at charging stations very very nervous.

I could go on probably forever, but suffice it to say that I love the hell out of it, it's the absolute perfect commuter, and it has caused me to stop riding all my other motorcycles. Feel free to pester me with questions if you are curious about any aspects of ownership/whatever.

Also, it is tons of fun on the track!

 

[Archimedes]

I think you'll see electric proliferate in urban-oriented formats in the next 5 year though.

Not at current prices you won't. The number of people that are going to pay $13,000 for a bike that only does commute duty is pretty small. Niche? Sure. Proliferate? Don't see it until prices are 35-50% lower than they are now or the performance comes up dramatically.

 

[scalvert]

• Handles amazingly. Utterly goddamn amazingly. The combination of the things you can do with a frame that doesn't have an engine in the way + the weight distribution of no gas tank + no engine vibration + no gyroscopic force of reciprocating mass = holy SHIT.
• Bonus: you get to make yuppies plugging in their Priuses at charging stations very very nervous.

These two alone would be worth the money for me. When you add in lower local pollution (motorcycles are great for CO2 emissions, due to high gas milage, but per gallon of gas burnt are terribly dirty wrt to NOx, CO, and particulates), and lower carbon footprint it's a no brainer.

I can feel some of you itching when I bring up local pollutants. Sadly it matters. Urban kids have poorer respiratory health than people away from lots of engine exhaust. That shit matters.

 

[Gary856]

Feel free to pester me with questions if you are curious about any aspects of ownership/whatever.

Great, someone's got to be buying them, but what type of people are these?

Are you one of those earlier adopters who must be the first on the block to own a new product? Do you work for them? Or, do you have so much disposable income that cost isn't an issue? I'm curious about how you justified/rationalizez the purchase of a new $16k electric bike to see if I can relate.

 

[Archimedes]

These two alone would be worth the money for me. When you add in lower local pollution (motorcycles are great for CO2 emissions, due to high gas milage, but per gallon of gas burnt are terribly dirty wrt to NOx, CO, and particulates), and lower carbon footprint it's a no brainer.

I can feel some of you itching when I bring up local pollutants. Sadly it matters. Urban kids have poorer respiratory health than people away from lots of engine exhaust. That shit matters.

Why don't you own one then?

 

[scalvert]

Why don't you own one then?

Because I also own a house that I'm in the middle of renovating and and FZ1 that is a blast to ride. An increasingly guilty blast considering I just use it to pound out a Bay Bridge commute week in and week out. I also have a family I'm supporting and money just ain't easy to come by.

For sure though, when the house is done and sanity returns to mu budget I'll be a proud new owner.

 

[ohio]

Don't see it until prices are 35-50% lower than they are now or the performance comes up dramatically.

I may know some things that you don't...

Also, I was specific about urban-oriented. By this I mean sumos, dual sports, scooters, and small displacement equivs (sub 500cc). Not that popular in the US, but mainstream in Europe.

 

[ohio]

Great, someone's got to be buying them, but what type of people are these?

Are you one of those earlier adopters who must be the first on the block to own a new product? Do you work for them? Or, do you have so much disposable income that cost isn't an issue? I'm curious about how you justified/rationalizez the purchase of a new $16k electric bike to see if I can relate.

Not to put words in his mouth, but the same way you would justify a new HP4. Functionally, it doesn't offer you anything on the street you couldn't do with a $5k used CBR1k. But the BMW gives the owner a bigger moto-boner. Sometimes that's worth it.

And you're misusing "early adopter." You actually mean "innovator" according the classic adoption curve. Innovators accept compromised functionality just to be first. Early adopters are willing to accept higher cost and quality risk, but demand equal or better functionality to the incumbent product. The Model S is the only electric vehicle I would consider to have crossed into early adopter territory.

 

[redtail]

But the BMW gives the owner a bigger moto-boner.

good one...

 

[Archimedes]

I may know some things that you don't...

Also, I was specific about urban-oriented. By this I mean sumos, dual sports, scooters, and small displacement equivs (sub 500cc). Not that popular in the US, but mainstream in Europe.

$13,000 scooters are mainstream in Europe?

Seriously, I'd love a truly competitive eBike. Just tired of the e-transport hype machine that's been on overdrive since the day the first EV1 rolled off the assembly line.

 

[Archimedes]

Not to put words in his mouth, but the same way you would justify a new HP4. Functionally, it doesn't offer you anything on the street you couldn't do with a $5k used CBR1k.

You've haven't ridden the new HP4 have ya?

 

[ohio]

$13,000 scooters are mainstream in Europe?

Who said $13k?

5 year window. If scooter MFGs can hit $300/kWh TSL (a point Tesla has already hit), building a profitable $4500 equivalent to the $4500 Vespa LX150 and Honda SH150 (80kph top speed, ~3kWh = 70km range) is very very doable. Still at the high end of the mid-size scooter market, but certainly mainstream.

You've haven't ridden the new HP4 have ya?

Are you saying it doesn't give you a moto-boner? Do you even LIKE motorcycles?