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United White College Fund

nine said:
1) "Ethnic" club membership is not based on ethnicity. The purpose of these clubs, aside from being social gatherings, is to promote awareness of the culture.

2) What awareness does a "white" student group need to promote. What are "white" values? What is it about "white" culture that it needs a dedicated student group?

2a) This IS a white society. Everywhere around us is white society. The only reason that its not obvious is that folks, unless they've been on the other side, can't see it. WTF would be the purpose of a "white" club?

2b) I assert that any club that is not an ethnic club, by default, is a "white" club. There's no reason or purpose to have a "white" club...


FWIW non-(insert ethnic group) folk joining BSU (Black Student Union) or CSA (Chinese Student Association) is not unusual.
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In Hawaii all High Schools had at least a German club and a Spanish club in addition to the Japanese, Chinese, and Korean clubs.

And the clubs were always broken down to specific ethnicities. I've heard of "Asian" clubs, but I guess that is the result of too few Asians to make individual ethnic clubs. Perhaps the same might be true for a Caucasian club.
 
nine said:
I know of Asian students that had 4.0+ GPA's, had high SAT's, and were active in extra-curricular activities that were denied admissions to Cal when AA was still in effect. Yet, underpresented minorities with far less qualifications were allowed in.
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But how do you quantify the “qualified” criteria? Did these “unqualified” people have anything that society needed? Would they add to the academic world? Did they do anything that would add to their “score” for admissions? Did they graduate? What I am attempting to get at is “equity” - What kind of equity do we place on having a “balanced” (ethnic, religious, gender, etc) society of college graduates? If we do not attempt to level the playing field, what is the result? Again, this process, AA, is not going to last forever – at least it shouldn’t in my opinion. But as long as:

“… "it's not what you know, but who you know" and also the "corporate face" do not come into play in hiring practices is a bit naive--especially for upper management positions.”

exist with regard to race-based decisions on acceptance, we need it. I do not like it, but in my opinion the alternative is worse.
 
kevo said:
...
And the clubs were always broken down to specific ethnicities. I've heard of "Asian" clubs, but I guess that is the result of too few Asians to make individual ethnic clubs. Perhaps the same might be true for a Caucasian club.
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I'd be interested to see what would be included in the charter of a Caucasian club. If it's really cool, I might join!
 
FWIW I don't like AA because it's a flawed system, but I can agree with it's "higher" goals.


Anyways, I'll say something on topic...

That kid is a shit-stirring, white-bread, punk-ass, needle-d!ck, attention whore. At his age, I'd be inclined to beat the living crap out of someone like him. It wouldn't be the "right" thing to do, but damn! It'd sure feel good...
 
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Is it right for a Minority applying to U. Michigan to get more points awarded to him on the scale simply because of his racial origin than a white kid who got a PERFECT SAT score??

That's what I can't agree with.

I do agree with the whole "minorities are trying to battle generations of discrimination in thier societies", but there has to be a BETTER way to do it, other than alienating current generations of white kids who had nothing to do with the past because all it will do is create MORE animosity in people who possibly had none to begin with.

And why is it that the world thinks every white kid grew up in a stable, middle-higher class home, with awesome schools, a sack lunch waiting on the counter every morning, and a "cush" job waiting for him when he graduates from school?

I'm noot gonna get into it, but TRUST ME, my life wasn't like that.
 
Bad Dad said:
Is it right for a Minority applying to U. Michigan to get more points awarded to him on the scale simply because of his racial origin than a white kid who got a PERFECT SAT score??...
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Yeah, I see your point - I do not think every white person had Ward and June as parental units and lived in Smallville...

But I think the goal of the system is to balance society’s ills. The perfect SAT score benefits both equally in the MI system. If both students are equal - one gets more points because he/she is a "Underrepresented Racial/Ethnic Minority" Just as a resident in MI would benifit in that same system... I do not like the idea of someone benefiting because of an accident of birth – and that is what we have with the AA process. Yeah, there must be a better way – but WTH is it? What do we do in the meantime?
 
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being mexican american, i know of many "hispanic" scholarships that even i don't qualify for. the point of these ethnic scholarships is to provide the means for a "ethnic student" to go to a major university that he/she would have no chance whatsoever to pay for or even qualify for a loan for. Most of these scholarships target the student that is from a very low income/lower class or immigrant family. the point is to give this kid a chance at succeeding in the "white world" of america.
I find it hard to sympathize with all these white middle class americans blaming programs like AA and ethnic scholarships for their economic problems. being white they get more than one step ahead of any minorty. That is something that i know they will never comprehend, even if the white man is the minority. because this is the white man's world, it will take more than 20 years and the end of AA for him to even get a glimpse of what "minorities" have been experiencing in America for more than the past century.
for a funny look into "the other side" check out a movie by john travolta 'White Man's Burden'
all this about no scholarships for whites is BS anyway. Each and every univeristy has many scholarships that tend to the "qualified" white man that was set up by an alumnus or in the name of an alumnus that passed on.
even if you don't qualify for a scholarship, you (the middle class white man) will qualify for bank/student loans that a majority of the minorities won't.
not bitter in the least here. everyone's been dealt their cards, it just depends on how you play them.
just my .02.
 
Bad Dad said:
...but there has to be a BETTER way to do it, other than alienating current generations of white kids who had nothing to do with the past because all it will do is create MORE animosity in people who possibly had none to begin with...
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I do not know the answer to that - what do we tell our kids? How am I going to explain to my kid that the Cop who pulled him over did so because it was a DWB? How do I prevent the animosity within him? The problems addressed by AA are not all based on the past...
 
Nahullo said:
Yeah, there must be a better way – but WTH is it? What do we do in the meantime?
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THAT's what these discussions should be about.!! :thumbup


THe one thing I think we should see more is, responsibility of those minorites that have succeeded to go back and help others. There are so many extremely wealthy minorities and you don't hear NEAR enough about them going back and paying for educations, offering job opportunites. After all, we are talking about whites doing this for "their" people right?? Why don't more minorities do this??

I'd love to see a big rapper talk less about the "bling" and more about how many scholarships his giant diamond encrusted medallion weighin him down could by. Think about how many scholarships could be provided by the likes of Tiger Woods, Jay-Z, Shaq, Kobe, Iverson, Webber, Dre, etc.. not even to mention all of the people who have made it in the tech industry, which, trying not to stereotype, but there are probably a lot of asians in that group. And they could do INCREDIBLE amounts without denting their blingalicious accounts.
 
Bad Dad said:
And why is it that the world thinks every white kid grew up in a stable, middle-higher class home, with awesome schools, a sack lunch waiting on the counter every morning, and a "cush" job waiting for him when he graduates from school?

I'm noot gonna get into it, but TRUST ME, my life wasn't like that.
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it sucks that a lot of people do see every white person and think they fit into that criteria, i have many white friends that i'm sure grew up in the same struggle as you may have, so i think i know where you are coming from and understand your frustrations.
sucks being stuck in the not poor enough for help but not wealthy enough for..... everything else?
 
Nahullo said:
I do not know the answer to that - what do we tell our kids? How am I going to explain to my kid that the Cop who pulled him over did so because it was a DWB? How do I prevent the animosity within him? The problems addressed by AA are not all based on the past...
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I hope this doesn't make someone mad, or turn the tempo of this conversation but, if we looked at all the crime statistics (which I have done) there is an extremely unbalanced stat of black on white violence compared to white on black. If whites keep getting "bad white cops" thrown in their face (I'm not a cop, and I'm white, and I'VE BEEN THROWN around by a cop for nothing, and been pulled over for no reason!!), people are going to start bringing up the fact that alot more white people get victimized by blacks in America.


Hey, but don't forget!! Some of my best friends are black!! :p (that's my attempt to keep this light-hearted)
 
Bad Dad said:
THAT's what these discussions should be about.!! :thumbup…
There are so many extremely wealthy minorities and you don't hear NEAR enough about them going back and paying for educations, offering job opportunites. After all, we are talking about whites doing this for "their" people right??
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So many wealthy minorities? In this country?

No, I do not see this as whites doing this for their people. I’m not sure what you mean… The idea that “white are doing this for their own” is based on the idea that they are doing it at the expense of minorities – not as some sot of benevolent gesture out of their own pockets.


Bad Dad said:
...I'd love to see a big rapper talk less about the "bling" and more about how many scholarships his giant diamond encrusted medallion weighin him down could by. Think about how many scholarships could be provided by the likes of Tiger Woods, Jay-Z, Shaq, Kobe, Iverson, Webber, Dre, etc.. not even to mention all of the people who have made it in the tech industry, which, trying not to stereotype, but there are probably a lot of asians in that group. And they could do INCREDIBLE amounts without denting their blingalicious accounts.
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Ya have to try harder – the "wealthy black people" are into sports and entertainment and more concerned about the bling-bling? The Asians are all into the IT world? What makes you think Tiger Woods, Jay-Z, Shaq, Kobe, etc. have not given something to their community. And what community are we talking about? Kobe and Tiger come from middle class backgrounds – actually Kobe’s family had more money than typical middle class. Preconceived notions…
 
Bad Dad said:
I hope this doesn't make someone mad, or turn the tempo of this conversation but, if we looked at all the crime statistics (which I have done) there is an extremely unbalanced stat of black on white violence compared to white on black. If whites keep getting "bad white cops" thrown in their face (I'm not a cop, and I'm white, and I'VE BEEN THROWN around by a cop for nothing, and been pulled over for no reason!!), people are going to start bringing up the fact that alot more white people get victimized by blacks in America.


Hey, but don't forget!! Some of my best friends are black!! :p (that's my attempt to keep this light-hearted)
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Yeah, but let me know where you got your stats... I found a few... It seems unlikely that people who know each other would commit race based crimes...


More recent...

Crime in the United States, 2000 - FBI

Supplemental data for 14,697 murder offenders indicate that 90.2 percent of the offenders were male and 91.3 percent of the murder offenders were aged 18 or older. By race, 51.4 percent were black, 46.1 percent were white, and 2.6 percent of the offenders were of other races.

Data continue to indicate that murder is most often intraracial. In 2000, 93.7 percent of black murder victims were slain by black offenders and 86.2 percent of white murder victims were slain by white offenders.

In 2000, relationship data between victims and their offenders indicated that 44.3 percent of the victims were acquainted with or related to their assailants. Familial relationships existed between 13.4 percent of the victims and their murderers; acquaintances murdered 30.9 percent of the victims.

Husbands or boyfriends murdered 33.0 percent of the female victims, and wives or girlfriends killed 3.2 percent of male victims during 2000.
 
kind of far off the original thread... as fun as this was, i would say the horse is dead...
 
It's really easy to get heated up over this. Some people will point out that AA is just more discrimination and opportunity is going to less qualified people. Others will point out that it's impossible for a white person to truly understand the pervasive quality of racism in the US.

What we could use are numbers. Facts. Given a certain school, what were the test scores for whites, blacks, asians... what were the admissions percentages?

I come from a town just outside of Boston. We had a very mixed population including Euro-White (lots of Italian, Irish, French Canadian, and Wonder Bread, mostly blue collar. An above average for the area african american population, and a large group of black immigrants (mostly islanders with a sub-group from Ethiopia) so a local university used us for a study.

Those that had the lowest average income, least likely to attenc college and had the highest crime rates were the african americans.

Next, and just below the national average for income was the white community.

The highest average income, most likely to go to college... the black immigrant community.

I knew a lot of them, they would work as hard as they could to reach a goal. A lot of them had two jobs, they did everything they could and made sure thier kids worked at school too.

Thats how you get ahead in this country.

So whites may have it easier in some cases. Me, I had to drop out of college because I didn't have the money. I work two jobs, but I live pretty well compared to some. I'll keep taking classes. I'll have jobs on the side. I'll make sure my kids work at getting an education, and I'll sacrafice to save money to put them through college.

Now, my opinion on college. I think before national health care we need national higher education. If not there are a lot of countries now that are pushing education and they will pass us by if we don't work hard now.
 
Nahullo said:
No, I do not see this as whites doing this for their people. I’m not sure what you mean… The idea that “white are doing this for their own” is based on the idea that they are doing it at the expense of minorities – not as some sot of benevolent gesture out of their own pockets.
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So then you don't think that white people do more to get white people into college?? Or are you saying that they do it only to keep out minorities? I'm getting confused........




Nahullo said:
Ya have to try harder – the "wealthy black people" are into sports and entertainment and more concerned about the bling-bling? The Asians are all into the IT world? What makes you think Tiger Woods, Jay-Z, Shaq, Kobe, etc. have not given something to their community. And what community are we talking about? Kobe and Tiger come from middle class backgrounds – actually Kobe’s family had more money than typical middle class. Preconceived notions… [/B]
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Ok, see, you're already takin what I said and trying to make it inflammatory. I might as well walk away from this discussion.

I brought up examples of immense wealth as just that EXAMPLES. These are examples I know of, because they are in the forefront of our eyes when we look at society?? Why am I wrong for that? Do asians have a large percentage in the tech industry?? Am I wrong, or am I just wrong for "saying it" Once again, you want to have discussion about race relations but you want to find fault in every word from a white man.

Did I say that they don't help?? NO. I said they could do a LOT MORE. Period. I'm offering suggestions to this problem that YOU and I said we don't know ho to fix.

And if you want to take my statement and say it's "pre-conceived notions", then I'll go back to my statement about the fact that you think all whites are middle-higher class, 2 parent, "wally and beaver type families".

Yes, Kobe and Tiger came from higher class backgrounds. But the fact is that you're saying we should do more to help minorities because they are all discriminated against and have no chance to succeed, but yet you need to remind me that Kobe and Tiger are not from that background.??
WTF??

Once again, a white guy tries to have decent dialogue concerning race relations and it turns into another "you're just a white guy, with preconceived notions, stereotypes, and discrimination."

Like I said, I'm walking away, head down, wondering WTF??

Blame us, open the dialogue, blame us more, call us racist and analyze every word spoken to try and find a hint of racism when we try to talk, pull those words out and blow them up twist them around, blame us more, and then wonder why people still have animosity towards other races.
 
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