600's Vs. Litre Bikes.

[Hooli]

Ah yes...Performance and Design...Steve wasn't it?

Ride up to the door of that place and there were 30-40 bikes on the curb. Everything from rat bikes to full on racebikes.

Yes! Steve Mitoma...type "AA" personality (when you got to know him, he was actually pretty nice, though!) and fast as all hell. He spanked EVERYONE on Redwood Road riding a ratty Yamaha Exciter 250, the one with the trunk on the back. :eek

I used to work there part-time. It came as a great shock when we heard he passed from a fatal heart-attack at age, what, 35 or so? Geez...

 

[SilverBird]

More to add to the comments of others here but on the category 'big boats':

If you picture highway 9 uphill from Saratoga:

On the XX, a fast/easy pace will be achieved through mostly 2nd/3rd/4th gear between 4.5->7500 rpm (which is where the engine starts pulling hard). You can go faster by forgetting about 4th gear but this is where you are in "damage control" mode (you are punishing the rear tire, sliding it on command). In that case careful throttle control is mandatory and fun.

I am pretty sure I could smoke myself on 1000 cc sports twin (broader powerband helps and more nimble/lighter) or on any nice 600 (R6, F4i). The only "edge" about the longer boats (busa and xx essentially) is that they are very stable and confidence inspiring (you do not get tankslappers easily).

Just my .02 cents

 

[luisimo]

600 vs 1000

The liter bike CAN be ridden hard...
The supersport BEGS to be ridden hard.

My own Comparo is a ZX6R an a R1, the ninja has the best torque (supersport level) I mean it won the superstock at laguna (take that gixer's lovers) it doesn't come close to the R1 power band but plenty to get you in trouble.
So why do I ride an R1 ? You may ask...

VALVE ADJUSTMENT

Valve adjustment in the zx6r is every 8,000 miles, in the R1 is every 24,000 miles. Keep in mind that I clock over 20K miles per year.

If money was not an issue, I will buy a speed triple for the weekdays and a R6 for the weekend/track.

 

[My900ss]

What follows is strictly my opinion.

I have ridden on the street at least 1000 miles on the following bikes.

1973 Honda CB500
1978 Honda CBX1100
1986 Honda VFR 750
1989 Honda CBR 600
1989 Suzuki GSXR 1100
1991 Yamaha FZR1000
1993 Yamaha FZR600
1995 Ducati 900ss SP
2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200
2001 Suzuki GSXR1300

Bikes I have ridden on the race track (Summit Point, Roebling Road, Road Atlanta, Daytona)

1991 Kawasaki EX500
1991 Yamaha FZR400
1994 Honda CBR600F2

Of all the bikes I have ridden my current bike, the Ducati 900ss is by far the easiest to ride quickly. That is not to say it is out right the fastest bike between to points. The FZR400 was faster at Summit point than my F2. However I had to work much harder for that extra speed.

It has been pointed out the 600's are king due to flickability and the liter bikes rule due to torque and motor. At 440 pounds wet with 50 foot pound of torque the Ducati is King . Route 9 from SJ to Santa Cruz I am in 3rd and 4th gears 90% of the way. So very easy to go fast with. If the speed stay below 100mph the extra oomph the R1 or GSXR1 have isn't a real factor.

That said life would be boring if everyone had the same bike.

Troy

 

[OldFatGuy]

I bought my 929 because:

A) I'm a lard ass.
B) I'm too lazy to shift a 600 constantly.
C) I like to have plenty of power on tap for those passing situations where the acceleration of a 600 just doesn't cut it.
D) I like to drag race once in a while.

I know I'd probably be faster on a 600, but I think I probably have more fun on the 929. And that's what it's all about to me.

 

[donoman]

I used to be afraid of 1000cc's.
Now, I'd love to be on an RC51... guess it's not a real liter bike tho.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I used to be afraid of 1000cc's.
Now, I'd love to be on an RC51... guess it's not a real liter bike tho.

Technically, I guess my 929 isn't either.

 

[wannabe]

Does a 650 Norton Commando count?

My buddy rides a '73 Notron Commando. He's got a nice little theory about that. As you mentioned, the brakes and suspension sucked when they were new, and they're not any better almost 30 years later. He says that he constantly scares himself trying to stop and corner at 20 mph on the Norton. To get that same kind of scare takes quite a bit more speed on my ZX-12.

So, his theory is that if he's gonna get the same rush either way, he's rather scare himself at slower speeds on the Norton.

As for me, I bought the ZX-12 (that's 1.2 liters for you uninitiated types) because:

1. I hate shifting gears. (Torque is good. Torque is my friend.)
2. I really only play in the hills maybe 10% of the time.
3. I really wanna see what it's like to go 180+ on a bike.

But, mostly I bought the bike because:

4. It's a much larger penis extension.

 

[dragonbro]

it wasn't a progression thing for me or a "small thing" complex either. i started motorcycles on a 1984 gpz550. tried racing a bit on a rs250b (not very sucessfull) had two gsxr-750's, then took an 8 yr leave of absence to bikes (unfortunatly). i fell in love with the TLR's unique appearance and style. i liked the fact that it was always rated as an underdog. i liked the torque and hp numbers too. rode one, and i knew i had to have one. i definatly rode my 750's faster on the street, but i really like my TLR and i'm still learning how to respect its liter size! .

 

[theSteveCo]

When I get to the point that I have to wring my '02 Sixxer's neck to get more horsepower I'll step up to a liter twin. Until then, I can ride nowhere NEAR the limits of my 600. With the exception of my sprockets, and suspension, I doubt I'll ever mod the bike.

OTOH, when I rode SH2K's VTR I was amazed at the amount of power availabe at almost any RPM.

 

[donoman]

Yeah, I guess the main reason for moving to a bigger bike was for commuting. I got tired of having to *click-click* downshift before I'd have enough power to pass someone quickly.

 

[donoman]

mmmm... 600 or 1000.... mmmm

For Sale, 5600$ [/unbashful advertisement]
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[morthrane]

At 440 pounds wet with 50 foot pound of torque the Ducati is King . Route 9 from SJ to Santa Cruz I am in 3rd and 4th gears 90% of the way. So very easy to go fast with. If the speed stay below 100mph the extra oomph the R1 or GSXR1 have isn't a real factor.

So what does that make my 430lbs wet with 72ft/lbs of torque R1? Supreme Galatic Overlord?

 

[Hooli]

So what does that make my 430lbs wet with 72ft/lbs of torque R1? Supreme Galatic Overlord?

Yup.

Mine's Road, heading back to Livermore from the Junction...stuck it in 3rd and left it there.

 

[morthrane]

I should also mention that I never actually intended to buy an R1... I was looking for a new bike, yeah, but couldn't afford the Aprilia Falco I wanted. Took a test ride on the R1 and ended up loving the bike, bought it that day

 

[My900ss]

RPM

The differece is what RPM is your R1 producing 72 foot pounds?

My Duck makes its tourqe down low. Very easy to ride. Not to shabby with 100 fewer cc's and 12 fewer valves to work with

The R1 is faster lighter and more powerfull. What the Ducati has that the R1 misses is Mojo Baby! Ducati is King

 

[streetsquid]

The R1 has no mojo??? I beg to differ. I think the R1 has mucho mojo, baby. Yeah!

 

[Robert R1]

It's the Ducati's power deliver method that makes it better. Where as the I4's shoot power in a linear manner the Duc's deliver power in pulses. The Duc's allow the tire to slip/grip/slip/grip where as the guy on the I4 is just sitting there and spinning it up. Sigh: I have a thing for Duc's.

 

[SilverBird]

It's the Ducati's power deliver method that makes it better. Where as the I4's shoot power in a linear manner the Duc's deliver power in pulses. The Duc's allow the tire to slip/grip/slip/grip where as the guy on the I4 is just sitting there and spinning it up. Sigh: I have a thing for Duc's.

Twins or "how to go fast without breaking a sweat"...

My problem is broader: I love I4 (600, 1000+), V-twins, flat twins, triples. I could use (at least) five different bikes, but so would most of you too.

 

[calamari_750]

I bought my 750 because it seems to be the perfect compromise between the 600 and liter-bike classes. Flickability of a 600 and plenty of power on tap. Additionally, I don't think it's a bike that I'll ever outgrow. The only reason I'd move up to a liter bike is to get a twin and have more space for passengers/comfort. Otherwise, the Gix 750 is DAMN good out of the box.