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AB1371 - Another victory the spandex squad

YOU are the one arguing for people to pay for their usage. Since everybody pays the same amount towards our roads, and cars and motorcycles require MORE road upkeep per unit than bicycles, you argue AGAINST your own practices. Understand now?

Good arguments. However, the general fund is not pay to play, it is just that a general fund. The state parks is a pay to play. The national parks on the other hand, get the notion of impact, therefor they have a sliding scale fee.
 
Thanks for putting in the line of thought, redtail183. This makes more sense now and I see your point

I just don't give enough of a hoot to write out a decent reply or sort out my convoluted thread of thought and I have work to do. I will continue to be polite to cyclists, motos and sometimes even cars on the road. We all get fucked and have to pay one way or the other. :party
 
Good arguments. However, the general fund is not pay to play, it is just that a general fund. The state parks is a pay to play. The national parks on the other hand, get the notion of impact, therefor they have a sliding scale fee.

I was never in favor of pay to play. You don't need to tell me that.
 
I've posted this damned link 4 times now. ROADS ARE MAINTAINED BY THE GENERAL FUND, NOT "ROAD/CAR/VEHICLE TAX". In other words: DMV fees do not cover the cost of your using the road. In fact, cars do exponentially more damage to our highway infrastructure than do bicycles. That means that you being in a car costs more in taxes for road upkeep than a bicycle does, and DMV fees doesn't cover nearly enough to make that cost come close to a cyclist.

What does that damned link have to do with roads in California, let alone the U.S.A.? All the info on that site has to do with the U.K., and how things work over there.

In this country, and in this state, the lions' share of the funding is collected through considerable excise and sales taxes collected from fuel sales and weight fees. On state and federal highways the funding ratio is higher than county and public roads. Even when projects are paid from a "general fund" or a bond, if you pay attention to the funding sources of the General fund, or maintenance fees of the bond, it is paid for by the generation of funds from motor vehicle operation. If you really want a concise primer on the subject, read this: http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/tpp/office...ion_Funding_in_California_2011_rev_050112.pdf

Conservatively speaking, i'ts pretty obvious that the funding generated by the operation of motor vehicles on the highways are crucial to their existence, and that bicycles cannot claim this distinction. The more miles driven, the more fuel is used, the more fuel is used the more taxes collected. It's that simple.

It is arguable whether this gives more rights to the motorists on the road, but let's just not perpetuate the myth that motor vehicles don't pay for the roads any more than bicyclists do
 
What does that damned link have to do with roads in California, let alone the U.S.A.? All the info on that site has to do with the U.K., and how things work over there.

In this country, and in this state, the lions' share of the funding is collected through considerable excise and sales taxes collected from fuel sales and weight fees. On state and federal highways the funding ratio is higher than county and public roads. Even when projects are paid from a "general fund" or a bond, if you pay attention to the funding sources of the General fund, or maintenance fees of the bond, it is paid for by the generation of funds from motor vehicle operation. If you really want a concise primer on the subject, read this: http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/tpp/office...ion_Funding_in_California_2011_rev_050112.pdf

Conservatively speaking, i'ts pretty obvious that the funding generated by the operation of motor vehicles on the highways are crucial to their existence, and that bicycles cannot claim this distinction. The more miles driven, the more fuel is used, the more fuel is used the more taxes collected. It's that simple.

It is arguable whether this gives more rights to the motorists on the road, but let's just not perpetuate the myth that motor vehicles don't pay for the roads any more than bicyclists do

As far as california goes, I believe road upkeep is paid for by gas and sale taxes. But on the flip side, motor vehicles cause the most damage to the roads and highways while bicycles cause...nearly none? So cars are paying for the damages that the cars cause.
 
I think we all saw it coming and Bicycle Billy got the jump on us through legislation.

Generally speaking, public perception of motorcyclists is that we're all Hooligans. Mainly because that's what people remember: the a-hole unnecessarily splitting at 75mph, the wheelies, getting flipped-off and threatened because who knows why, ripping through the park disregarding everybody's safety.

Generally speaking we, the moto community, perceive day-glo spandex-clad cyclists as self-centered, overachieving a-holes who, when they're not driving their Porsches or Volvo's with roof racks as they please, are intentionally riding 2 to 3 abreast on the most heavily traveled "sport" roads through the hills, or veering into traffic through the busiest part of the city during rush hour.

In the end it's all about ego and machismo: generally a pissing match where both sides have good points but both are also to blame for the causing the problems in the first place.

I know war is fun, but live and let live goes a long way and somebody has to start....
 
In the end it's all about ego and machismo: generally a pissing match where both sides have good points but both are also to blame for the causing the problems in the first place.

I know war is fun, but live and let live goes a long way and somebody has to start....

This, except I don't perceive are "sides" to this. I perceive a small % of people in any given group -- drivers, riders, cyclists -- who are puds ("squids gotta squid" someone said above). What's unfortunate is when one of those puds pisses someone off, and they take it out on me -- on the road or in the Legislature -- because I happen to engage in the same activity.

(Plus, I gotta agree with scimmione's sentiment, everyone just chill out a bit. Yeah, I hate it when people do boneheaded things, but adding 30 seconds to my ride/commute/drive is not going to raise my blood pressure -- you'll hafta do better than that.)
 
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So I am alone in my outrage over needing an appliance to slap the ass of bicyclists as I cruise past now? What about me and my needs?
 
I'm just glad this law passed so I can ride safely.

I mean, thank god there is laws about texting, speeding, drinking and driving, murder, because it never happens any more.
 
I'm just glad this law passed so I can ride safely.

I mean, thank god there is laws about texting, speeding, drinking and driving, murder, because it never happens any more.

i like you. you have balls. i like balls.
 
I'm just glad this law passed so I can ride safely.

I mean, thank god there is laws about texting, speeding, drinking and driving, murder, because it never happens any more.
picture.php
 
You know, if you just replaced bicycle with motorcycle, the op would b right at home on a Prius forum and we'd all be appalled at the vitriol and complete douchbaggery of the attitude.

Perhaps. However the prius owners spewing vitrol isn't automatically ticketed ( and more at fault in the eye of insurance companies due to getting a traffic violation ) if we get into a wreck.

As motorcyclist, we are constantly aware and reminded that we are in smaller vehicle and the onus of our own safety is in our own hand. Many riders do things at their own inconvenience to minimize risk their own risk .. such as riding line a sane person .. such as not splitting at 75MPH .. such as going ATGATT even when its 90 deg outside .. such as not crossing DY on a blind turn .. ect ect.

Cyclist on the other hand have much smaller lighter slower, more vulnerable "vehicles". But instead of being even more vigilant than motorcyclist, and taking even more care / precautions to guarantee personal safety, most cyclist ride around with the only protection being that little clamshell on top of their head called the helmet and their spandex while breaking numerous road rules. Even the BaRFer cyclists posting on this thread admits to habitually blowing stop signs.

After all that, now what is expected to keep them safe is a law forcing everyone else on the road to be inconvenienced and to stay 3 ft away.

:rolleyes
 
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Perhaps. However the prius owners spewing vitrol isn't automatically ticketed ( and more at fault in the eye of insurance companies due to getting a traffic violation ) if we get into a wreck.

As motorcyclist, we are constantly aware and reminded that we are in smaller vehicle and the onus of our own safety is in our own hand. Many riders do things at their own inconvenience to minimize risk their own risk .. such as riding line a sane person .. such as not splitting at 75MPH .. such as going ATGATT even when its 90 deg outside .. such as not crossing DY on a blind turn .. ect ect.

Cyclist on the other hand have much smaller lighter slower, more vulnerable "vehicles". But instead of being even more vigilant than motorcyclist, and taking even more care / precautions to guarantee personal safety, most cyclist ride around with the only protection being that little clamshell on top of their head called the helmet and their spandex while breaking numerous road rules. Even the BaRFer cyclists posting on this thread admits to habitually blowing stop signs.

After all that, now what is expected to keep them safe is a law forcing everyone else on the road to be inconvenienced and to stay 3 ft away.

:rolleyes

I'm one of those, and I average 30k per year on the motorcycle. At my current rate, I will clock at least 3k on the bicycle.

Trust me, I am NOT unaware of the dangers out there, the fact that I ride a motorcycle has me hyper aware of shit on two wheels. I adjust my ride based on conditions, I am constantly doing shoulder checks. Shit, I shoulder check MORE OFTEN now that I have been on a bicycle without mirrors.

Yes, most bicyclists are morons, because they do NOT have a concept of how fucked they are if they get into an accident. I do, and I ride accordingly. Yes, I roll through stop signs, after slowing, and making sure there are no vehicles or people anywhere near the area. You are telling me that you come to a complete and full stop, at an empty intersection, at 6am, with no traffic or people around?

If you say yes, I am calling bullshit.

I hate most every other bicyclist on the road I hate every dot-com fucknut on their 5000 dollar bike, that can't get out of the way because they are cruising with their bro, talking about the latest ycombinator startup, I hate the moron that just grabbed one of the new bike share bikes, and is weaving all over the fucking road, screwing with cars, bikes, and pedestrians, I don't hate the messengers, that is their job, and I have ridden with a couple of them, they are fast, and they are safe (believe it or not). I see the majority of commuters pull the most amazing shit. Not stopping at redlights in SF during commute hours is pretty much suicide, and I see it happen all the time, and they don't even look to see if it is clear.

So guess what, you enjoy lane splitting because you can. I enjoy that, and I enjoy being able to move through an EMPTY, WITH NO TRAFFIC OR PEDESTRIANS intersection, because I can.

I'm not fucking with you, I"m not screwing with your commute, and if you rolled up as I approached a stop sign, I would stop. Then I would probably have to yell "JUST FUCKING GO" like I do EVERY DAY because you couldn't figure out why I wasn't just screaming through the intersection.
 
If your a smart rider this is pretty basic.

You already give bike dudes that bubble unless you or they are a prick. Both could apply.
Cagers pretty much do this already. Invading our land and causing an increased chance for harm to us.

So I would expect a few more extra wide passes.
Hopefully less of this in turns!! That could be a positive.

Overall impact to riders?? Not a lot IMO. For bicycles a big win.
Once people find out about it. :p
 
...bicycles on the road for free.

OP, bicyclists pay taxes too; fuel tax for their vehicle(s), income tax, real estate tax, sales tax, excise tax, dog tag tax, etc. There are about 100 taxes out there. And guess the reason for this law?
 
Perhaps. However the prius owners spewing vitrol isn't automatically ticketed ( and more at fault in the eye of insurance companies due to getting a traffic violation ) if we get into a wreck.

As motorcyclist, we are constantly aware and reminded that we are in smaller vehicle and the onus of our own safety is in our own hand. Many riders do things at their own inconvenience to minimize risk their own risk .. such as riding line a sane person .. such as not splitting at 75MPH .. such as going ATGATT even when its 90 deg outside .. such as not crossing DY on a blind turn .. ect ect.

Cyclist on the other hand have much smaller lighter slower, more vulnerable "vehicles". But instead of being even more vigilant than motorcyclist, and taking even more care / precautions to guarantee personal safety, most cyclist ride around with the only protection being that little clamshell on top of their head called the helmet and their spandex while breaking numerous road rules. Even the BaRFer cyclists posting on this thread admits to habitually blowing stop signs.

After all that, now what is expected to keep them safe is a law forcing everyone else on the road to be inconvenienced and to stay 3 ft away.

:rolleyes

Ok, how about this, you wear full leather gear and helmet, jump on a bicycle and ride about ...oh I'll give you benefit of the doubt, 15 miles, throw some elevation in there, and about 85-95 degree F weather. Tell me how it goes. Be sure to tell us how chaffed your ass will be and how you had to go to the hospital because you deyhydrated,got heat stroke, and can't feel your ass because the skin tore off.
But thanks for playing!

The fact that cyclists are extremely vulnerable to ANY impact, should be reason enough as to why they should be afforded a bit of extra protection from the legal system. Same with the recent lane-splitting campaign for motorcyclists, and the "CHECK MIRRORS FOR MOTORCYCLE" signs along the freeways.

Get out and jump on a bicycle lane once in a while, maybe you'll learn something.

OP, bicyclists pay taxes too; fuel tax for their vehicle(s), income tax, real estate tax, sales tax, excise tax, dog tag tax, etc. There are about 100 taxes out there. And guess the reason for this law?

Because OP doesn't have a 70% RSU tax, 50% ESPP tax, bracketed income tax, and all of the above you stated. Jesus, the typical stereotype "rich guy riding $10000 bicycle" probably pays more than his fair share to the "road". The tax argument is dumb and moot.

If your a smart rider this is pretty basic.

You already give bike dudes that bubble unless you or they are a prick. Both could apply.
Cagers pretty much do this already. Invading our land and causing an increased chance for harm to us.

So I would expect a few more extra wide passes.
Hopefully less of this in turns!! That could be a positive.

Overall impact to riders?? Not a lot IMO. For bicycles a big win.
Once people find out about it. :p

Most cyclists on hwy9 seem to always wave when i do my weekday riding out there. really cool groups around there.
 
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