crazy man at 16th St BART (NSFW)

[Karbon]

Sam Framcisco is far from armed society. Unless you are talking about BVHP

You're missing the point.

And what stats do you have re: the number of armed people in SF? Whether legally or illegally? Compared to what cities?

 

[stoltzf4]

I've intervened in several such situations, most of the time instinctively because I didn't have time to think it through. This guy was obviously in top shape, and in a drugged/mental state that would have made him quite dangerous in my opinion. I would not have taken the decision to jump in lightly. I do not blame others for not doing anything...it is all too easy too armchair when not in the moment. Plus he was naked, I generally avoid close combat with naked people

 

[sanjuro]

Let me ask you first would you? If it means defending myself, my family, or someone in immediate danger from someone like the person in question? Yes.

I've intervene into more than one conflict or condition(theft/robbery) that I believe could have escalated to a much more physical or dangerous situation. I know the risk and so does my family, if they are with me, and fortunately so far I've de-escalated or halted the tension or actions of some people. It is what Travis Haley of Haley Strategic calls Disruptive Environment.

So my second question to you Steve is are you a Sheep or a Sheepdog.

I did write about it earlier in this thread. The answer is yes, but it would be far from a reflexive action, and it certainly would not be an one-strike Dim Mak.

Mostly it is easy to sit at your computer and say "Be a hero and fuck him up" Not so easy when pain and fear is right there.

 

[sanjuro]

One common theme with self-defense scenarios is "if the perfect situation occurred, I would certainly..."

Like if a prison escapee with a knife kicked in the front door as I happen to finish loading my shotgun in the foyer while I was feeding my triplets.

Yes, I would pull the trigger.

But self-defense is never that simple.

You are walk down the stairs from Mission into the station. You hear a girl shrieking and you turn and you see a 6'2" dark skinned man with wild hair, butt naked.

You were going to work or school, people are expecting you, and you were thinking about dinner or a date or your parents or whatever.

Now you need to decide if you are going to intervene. Like most people think about how to subdue an out-of-control acrobat.

It would be so much easier to just keep walking and call 911 from the platform.

For me, it is an easier decision process because I always think about two things:

1. How to protect myself
2. How can I help

 

[jdhu]

Nice trolling Rex. Unlike you, I do not have to prove anything to anyone on the this forum.

Seriously how could you look yourself at a mirror knowing you could have done something about it.

Jeez, did not want to get into pissing match, and I have had my own issues with Jes.

From my perspective, saying "You are a sheep" IS pejorative, even if you claim that you meant it neutrally. Had you explained initially (as you did in a follow-up) that you simply meant that it is natural for people to weigh risk/benefit, and that most people tend to be kind and gentle creatures, that would have made it less or non-insulting.

Instead, while you guys are arguing, you throw in a line that you KNOW is going to offend. So, you are both baiting...

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[jdhu]

One common theme with self-defense scenarios is "if the perfect situation occurred, I would certainly..."

Like if a prison escapee with a knife kicked in the front door as I happen to finish loading my shotgun in the foyer while I was feeding my triplets.

Yes, I would pull the trigger.

But self-defense is never that simple.

You are walk down the stairs from Mission into the station. You hear a girl shrieking and you turn and you see a 6'2" dark skinned man with wild hair, butt naked.

You were going to work or school, people are expecting you, and you were thinking about dinner or a date or your parents or whatever.

Now you need to decide if you are going to intervene. Like most people think about how to subdue an out-of-control acrobat.

It would be so much easier to just keep walking and call 911 from the platform.

For me, it is an easier decision process because I always think about two things:

1. How to protect myself
2. How can I help

Yeah, +1. This wasn't a "serious" situation, and so people just kind of watched and waited for the police.

Since the harm being done is so minor, the benefit of intervening is reduced. Do I want to be late for an appointment, have my nice clothes all ruffled, get dirty from the guy's sweat (and who knows what else), face a possible lawsuit down the line, have to explain my actions to the late-arriving police, etc etc etc, when the guy isn't really doing harm, but just acting strangely?

 

[RRR70]

talking out of my ass

Should I draw you a map with directions on where to go and what to do with yourself when you get there?

You're missing the point.

And what stats do you have re: the number of armed people in SF? Whether legally or illegally? Compared to what cities?

Stats? Number of CCW permits issued to San Francisco residents - 0.
Are there California residents travening thrugh the city, who have CA issued CCW license? Yes. Are there people in SF who carry the gun for self-defense without a permit? I am sure we have them. Will they use the gun to intervine in situation like that? I don't know, it depends on indivigual in question. Are there "people" in SF who prohibited from owning a gun and still carry? Fuck yeah. Will they intervine? Fuck no. So, beside the cops and criminals, SF is far from armed.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

Yeah, +1. This wasn't a "serious" situation, and so people just kind of watched and waited for the police.

Since the harm being done is so minor, the benefit of intervening is reduced. Do I want to be late for an appointment, have my nice clothes all ruffled, get dirty from the guy's sweat (and who knows what else), face a possible lawsuit down the line, have to explain my actions to the late-arriving police, etc etc etc, when the guy isn't really doing harm, but just acting strangely?

stop articulating what i ment

 

[TripleSeven]

Someone notify the makers of Dungens & Dragons, that an acrobat is now a battle class, according to teh barfs.

 

[Entoptic]

Someone notify the makers of Dungens & Dragons, that an acrobat is now a battle class, according to teh barfs.

I hope he rolls high for Charisma!

 

[Karbon]

Should I draw you a map with directions on where to go and what to do with yourself when you get there?


Stats? Number of CCW permits issued to San Francisco residents - 0.
Are there California residents travening thrugh the city, who have CA issued CCW license? Yes. Are there people in SF who carry the gun for self-defense without a permit? I am sure we have them. Will they use the gun to intervine in situation like that? I don't know, it depends on indivigual in question. Are there "people" in SF who prohibited from owning a gun and still carry? Fuck yeah. Will they intervine? Fuck no. So, beside the cops and criminals, SF is far from armed.

Thank you for substantiating your answer. I think its something you need to do more frequently here instead of posting up emoticons.
You have a wealth of knowledge about this stuff, its just shitty to have it reduced to a one line retort.

In anycase, my point is it think its bullshit to hubristically assert idea that "an armed society is a polite society". I feel that it makes more sense to say that "people should be aware of the right to defend themselves".

It like like when i was in Austin and San Antonio TX. People were nice there because they were raised with manners a different idea of respect not because everyone knew people were packing.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

In anycase, my point is it think its bullshit to hubristically assert idea that "an armed society is a polite society". I feel that it makes more sense to say that "people should be aware of the right to defend themselves".

It like like when i was in Austin and San Antonio TX. People were nice there because they were raised with manners a different idea of respect not because everyone knew people were packing.

I think it takes a combination of both, honestly. Part of the problem isn't just manners, it's that things that should be a non-issue are sensationalized and made into an issue.

Remember plinking with BB guns at cans in your backyard? Playing "guns" and running around pointing plastic toys at each other yelling "bang bang bang" and then fighting over who "died" first, followed by a bike ride together just because you got bored and everyone stayed friends? Picture the news headlines that shit causes now. Fear-mongering and sensationalist journalism means instead of something like that building a community, parents are scared of whatever influence others will have on their kids. People are scared of their neighbors if that neighbor comes home from a weekend hunting and starts unloading guns. People are scared of things they shouldn't be, things that are perfectly normal.

Combine all that with a lack of any real consequence for douchebaggery and dipshittiness and you get a fearful, subdued, unarmed, unwilling to defend themselves populace who have been taught to avoid conflict at all costs up to and including their dignity, health, even lives; a populace who fall easy prey to someone with a bone to pick, a point to prove, a criminal looking for an easy score, a crazy guy looking for an easy victim.

Think of it like this - people talk tough all the time. How many walk up to a known, recognized professional MMA fighter and talk tough to him/her? They're cognizant of the potential threat so they're more polite. If people are aware of a potential for harm/consequences for their actions, they tend to think a little more carefully and considerately about how their actions may affect others around them. People who have no problem slamming on your window and flipping you off because of a perceived traffic slight to their bicycle won't do the same thing to a cop. Thieves and burglars don't target police stations or military installations, for the most part. See what I'm getting at here?

 

[corndog67]

Me personally, I'm overweight, have not had much MMA training only what I know from horsing around with friends that do. But what I do have is the know how to throw my 250lbs of full on tackle into someone's rib cage. I can guarantee I would have taken Mr. Twinkle Toes down, and down hard. All I would have had to do was wait til he had his back to me and then BAM!!! Hit him like a Mack truck. The truth is any male in the vicinity could have done so but everyone was probably just thinking of getting home in time for dinner. If this had been at a different location I'm sure someone would have done what I'd have.

I seriously doubt that. So you wrestle with your buddies. This guy does acrobat training, I would assume, nearly every day. You would be out of breath before you got close to him. You can't guarantee, anything. My money would still be on the naked guy. But, whatever. It doesn't matter. All the superheroes weren't there, and the video is what went down. That isn't going to change.

 

[Rel]

First of all let's stop with the baiting and the name-calling and keep the thread on track. Secondly it doesn't really matter what we may or may not have done because we weren't there. I seen heroic actions out of the most unsuspecting people and I seen trained heroes collapse under stress. In this scenario the only person who knows whether or not they're in fear for their life is the woman being attacked by the aggressor. Having MMA a skills are great unless the other person pulls a gun. Finally as the old saying goes never risk more than you're willing to lose. If that were me and I was at Bart at that time, I would probably have engage the aggressor and tried to save the woman.

 

[sanjuro]

Thank you for substantiating your answer. I think its something you need to do more frequently here instead of posting up emoticons.
You have a wealth of knowledge about this stuff, its just shitty to have it reduced to a one line retort.

In anycase, my point is it think its bullshit to hubristically assert idea that "an armed society is a polite society". I feel that it makes more sense to say that "people should be aware of the right to defend themselves".

It like like when i was in Austin and San Antonio TX. People were nice there because they were raised with manners a different idea of respect not because everyone knew people were packing.

People love to use "an armed society is a polite one".

I have no answer to that, but compare major cities: Dallas and NYC have similar murder rates, and so does New Orleans and DC, but all four have radically different gun control policies.

Concealed carry is not part of the crime equation, whether you are for or against guns.

 

[Entoptic]

First of all let's stop with the baiting and the name-calling and keep the thread on track. Secondly it doesn't really matter what we may or may not have done because we weren't there. I seen heroic actions out of the most unsuspecting people and I seen trained heroes collapse under stress. In this scenario the only person who knows whether or not they're in fear for their life is the woman being attacked by the aggressor. Having MMA a skills are great unless the other person pulls a gun. Finally as the old saying goes never risk more than you're willing to lose. If that were me and I was at Bart at that time, I would probably have engage the aggressor and tried to save the woman.

The only gun that guy had was between his legs and it was already cocked.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

cringes at the thought of how effective an aerosol deterrent would be with that much exposed skin...and the location of exposure.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

People love to use "an armed society is a polite one".

I have no answer to that, but compare major cities: Dallas and NYC have similar murder rates, and so does New Orleans and DC, but all four have radically different gun control policies.

Concealed carry is not part of the crime equation, whether you are for or against guns.

I disagree. While it may not be the only part that matters, it IS a part of it. I think a bigger focus should be on who's actually getting murdered. The majority are drug/gang related or domestic violence and take place in lower-income areas of larger metropolitan cities, ie slums. There's a variety of other factors too, but much of it gets swept under the MSM rug for fear of being politically incorrect.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

cringes at the thought of how effective an aerosol deterrent would be with that much exposed skin...and the location of exposure.

Pepper spray to the balls might get his attention. The dreadfro may protect his face from the worst of the spray.

 

[Entoptic]

Pepper spray to the balls might get his attention. The dreadfro may protect his face from the worst of the spray.

what if you had a lighter and just went for the fro?