crazy man at 16th St BART (NSFW)

[Shaggy]

What about using an old school trident and net method minus the trident? Like Predators bladed net without the blades.

Yeah, just call "Time Out" while cops run to the hardware store to buy some rope and make a net.

In all seriousness, a net might work. I've never seen something like that used and I've never heard of any LE agency that carries a giant net in their patrol cars. LE doesn't deal with PCP as frequently as it used to in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

 

[mean dad]

.......
However, Taser International does make civilian model Tasers.

arty

zomg can anyone have one and carry it and blast fools bad guys???

 

[Entoptic]

Well...you often talk about your one year of training in a lot of BARF threads on how to react to situations on the street. So no jumping here. Figured that based on your posts that if you were there we would have seen you in the video going all kung fu on his ass. Would have liked to have seen you get the guy in a triangle hold

And are you speaking form experience about what police are allowed to use? Many departments teach their officers techniques other than the choke hold (which has been banned all over the place due to the risk of causing more damage than good). My son is allowed to use all his MMA training and often uses leg sweeps, arm bars and other pain compliance techniques when there is a compelling reason to use them. He just can't dislocate or break things.

I actually mentioned my 1 year of training once before. I have talked a lot about fighting and what I feel is good in many threads. Yes you are jumping, a lot, like the man of steel.

 

[Shaggy]

arty

zomg can anyone have one and carry it and blast fools bad guys???

As long as you're not a drug addict, convicted felon, or ever been convicted of assault, you're good to go.

§ 22610. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any person may purchase, possess, or use a stun gun, subject to the following requirements:
(a) No person convicted of a felony or any crime involving an assault under the laws of the United States, the State of California, or any other state, government, or country, or convicted of misuse of a stun gun under Section 244.5, shall purchase, possess, or use any stun gun.
(b) No person addicted to any narcotic drug shall purchase, possess, or use a stun gun.
(c) (1) No person shall sell or furnish any stun gun to a minor unless the minor is at least 16 years of age and has the written consent of the minor's parent or legal guardian.
(2) Violation of this subdivision shall be a public offense punishable by a fifty-dollar ($50) fine for the first offense. Any subsequent violation of this subdivision is a misdemeanor.
(d) No minor shall possess any stun gun unless the minor is at least 16 years of age and has the written consent of the minor's parent or legal guardian.

 

[n10sive]

Yes you are jumping, a lot, like the man of steel.

Yep. I can jump steaming piles of bullshit in a single leap

 

[Entoptic]

Yep. I can jump steaming piles of bullshit in a single leap

 

[MrIncredible]

arty

zomg can anyone have one and carry it and blast fools bad guys???

I bought one specifically to tase one of my friends.

Yes I'm an asshole.

 

[mean dad]

He had enough control of his faculties to instantly kneel down when the cop pulled out his baton.

 

[Outta Control]

I think you're trying to say my comment is unrealistic? I was speaking from a law enforcement perspective because I am a police officer. I was just explaining how difficult it is to deal with someone under the influence of PCP, even for people with training and proper equipment, let alone a citizen walking to a BART train on their way to/from work.

However, Taser International does make civilian model Tasers.

You as a LEO may be authorized by your agency to carry a Taser, good for you, but there are agencies out there that are not allowed to carry one. That is one point. How about off-duty do you carry a Taser? I highly doubt that. You'd be carrying your service or personal authorized pistol with you plus a BUG.

Point being is though you are a LEO 24/7 but when you not 10-8 then chances are you are not carrying a Taser. A CCW guy will not carry a Taser. That Bart employee that tried to help does not carry a Taser. See my point?

Tasers are nice and I know they have a civi-version of it but realistically unless you are on-duty and are authorized to carry a Taser only a LEO, like you, will use it. A Sheepdog/s will do what it takes to neutralize the threat.

 

[Outta Control]

arty

zomg can anyone have one and carry it and blast fools bad guys???

Here ya go: http://www.stungunmall.com/taser-c2.html

 

[Shaggy]

You as a LEO may be authorized by your agency to carry a Taser, good for you, but there are agencies out there that are not allowed to carry one. That is one point. How about off-duty do you carry a Taser? I highly doubt that. You'd be carrying your service or personal authorized pistol with you plus a BUG.

Point being is though you are a LEO 24/7 but when you not 10-8 then chances are you are not carrying a Taser. A CCW guy will not carry a Taser. That Bart employee that tried to help does not carry a Taser. See my point?

Tasers are nice and I know they have a civi-version of it but realistically unless you are on-duty and are authorized to carry a Taser only a LEO, like you, will use it. A Sheepdog/s will do what it takes to neutralize the threat.

So what point are you even trying to make?

My point was that people on PCP are difficult to control, even with the proper training and tools. That's it and that's all.

 

[Outta Control]

So what point are you even trying to make?

My point was that people on PCP are difficult to control, even with the proper training and tools. That's it and that's all.

Ok Nick I'll let you off the hook there.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

@ bolded text. That guy clearly was not in his right mind, a gun in his face will probably do zero.

Also, "I pointed my gun at him and he came at me so I shot him" is NOT the logic officer's use. That would likely be considered a "bad shoot".

It does appear, however, to be a pretty good situation for a Taser deployment, with a couple extra officers to jump in and cuff him quickly.

Now, if you had said something about the guy's athleticism/room control (backflips off of barricades, handstands, splits, etc.) and said you believed that to be indicative of martial arts training, and maybe if they guy did something else to key you that direction, combined with his erratic behavior, you might be closer to that level of force, but you still gotta consider your backdrop too. There were a lot of people around that area, I say it's still the wrong situation for lethal force.

1. CCW/LTC holders have a gun as their option, I doubt Lonster carries both a gun and taser.
2. You can use force to stop an assault likely to result in bodily injury or death to another.
3. If a cop pulls a gun on someone assaulting another citizen and the person assaulting then turns and comes at the cop, yes, it's a good shoot. I'd love for a LEO to chime in on this one, and if I'm wrong by all means my mistake but that's my current view on it.
4. I didn't say it's an ideal situation for lethal force, and I'm well aware of backdrop considerations. It's a tough call for sure but since we're armchair quarterbacking this whole thing I offered up my own speculation of shoulda/woulda/coulda.

Rethink my post for a minute. Proper training includes both when to shoot and when not to. My point was that a gun without training IS indeed fairly useless, while WITH training either a show of force or usage of that force if necessary could have ended this situation. I was in no way suggesting she simply draw down and open fire on him, but at the same time - you DON'T know what he could have done.
You can't shoot someone because 'you DON'T know what he could have done.' That is murder.

A rational person, as you put it, can see that:

1. He's targeting women specifically
2. He's kicking and punching others that get involved.
3. This constitutes assault.

None of which is grounds for brandishing a firearm, let alone shooting a person.

4. He is not in his right mind, be it from drugs or mental deficiency, and may very well harm someone. It's a very small step from kicking and punching to keep someone away to transition to kicking and punching to do serious harm and bodily injury.

I'm glad you carry, but in this particular situation, I think I'd probably at least have had it out and attempted to make him stand down and lay on the ground till cops arrived. Because he's gonna listen to you?
If he came at me after having a gun pointed in his face, yes, I would have shot him. And then you would be charged with murder, because your force was excessive compared to his force.
It's very simple and the same logic cops use when shooting someone. Wrong. If he continued dancing around on turnstiles and left others alone after I pointed my gun at him, then no, I wouldn't have shot him. It's a spur of the moment judgement call.

And you got it wrong, under the law.

You're twisting my words here. Are you intentionally misinterpreting what I'm writing? I didn't say anything about shooting someone just because you don't know what they could have done. It was more of a broad statement in that he's already in the process of an assault and may have decided to continue to do so further and not stop when confronted with force.

Drawing your weapon in defense of someone being assaulted is not brandishing.

Yes, he may have listened to me. He listened to the cops as soon as they drew a baton, it's not unreasonable to think he may have paid attention to a citizen with a gun telling him to stand down.

Force vs force comparisons are completely open to interpretation and a ridiculous argument for you to pull out from my post. Disparity of force is specifically a time when you can be justified in using your weapon. The usual example is a 6'4" 250 lb male assaulting a 5'2" 100 lb female. Doesn't matter if he has a weapon or not, she's good to go in shooting her attacker. More than one attacker is another situation, for example even if they're unarmed if you're faced with 5 people intent on doing you harm, you can use a firearm to protect yourself. Similar situation here (first example). I'm physically smaller than him, I may be in great shape but I'm not going to take him on 1 on 1 barehanded if I have another option. In this case, if nobody else is jumping in to help and he comes at me for telling him to stop, then yes. I stand by what I said before; I believe I would have shot him. Please feel free to point me to the text of the law that proves me wrong since you proclaim it so.

Let's take any further to discussion to PMs shall we?

 

[GiorgioFurioso]

Here ya go: http://www.stungunmall.com/taser-c2.html

Does the CA-compliant model actually stun, or is it more of a tickler-vibrator?

 

[n10sive]

Does the CA-compliant model actually stun, or is it more of a tickler-vibrator?

party favor for your next leather and lace party

 

[corndog67]

Rowdy Roddy Piper would have just did a cross-face chicken wing on his ass. Tap out!

Lots of tough guys are going to do this, do that, gonna neutralize him with superior "Japanese Bastard, You Kill My Master" superpowers, yeah right.

If my old lady or kid is out of danger, I'm going to stand back and film this cocksucker, same as everyone else. If he threatens me and comes at me, I'll try to stick him with my pocketknife, probably get my ass stabbed or beat up. I think some of you are underestimating the strength of "some girly acrobat" type of guy. That motherfucker is strong. And with a nose full of go-fast or elephant tranqs, even you superheros are going to have a hard time with him.

 

[jdhu]

Rowdy Roddy Piper would have just did a cross-face chicken wing on his ass. Tap out!

Lots of tough guys are going to do this, do that, gonna neutralize him with superior "Japanese Bastard, You Kill My Master" superpowers, yeah right.

If my old lady or kid is out of danger, I'm going to stand back and film this cocksucker, same as everyone else. If he threatens me and comes at me, I'll try to stick him with my pocketknife, probably get my ass stabbed or beat up. I think some of you are underestimating the strength of "some girly acrobat" type of guy. That motherfucker is strong. And with a nose full of go-fast or elephant tranqs, even you superheros are going to have a hard time with him.

+1.

I don't really think it's "sheeple" behavior to stand by, film, and wait for the police (there IS a lot of sheeple behavior out there, but I don't really think this counts). The guy was a little weird, and did harass that one girl, but otherwise, he was pretty harmless.

If you are going to intervene, you have to consider all sorts of things like getting injured, touching a gross-looking naked guy (in this case, at least), a possible lawsuit, etc. Those considerations make it not worth the risk, in this case.

IF this "artist" had seriously threatened someone or seemed likely to cause imminent harm, I like to think that I would jump in and do...something (even if just tackle or push the guy away). But, the danger factor wasn't there to justify the risk.

 

[Hundo]

Wow, my last post got quite misconstrued! I have no problems with Entopic or anybody else on here. The point I was making was that there was quite an initial volley of anger about the video and the purported sheeples that did nothing to stop Fro-Ninja and his back-flipping, stranger-humping, sky-cycling rampage.

But the second a BARFer claimed to know the guy, the crowd/mob's "anger" subsided quite quickly, as evidenced by the number of posts and the verbage and the volume of verbage contained within them.

Just a wee sociological observation I made.

 

[Karbon]

If this hasn't been mentioned before on why people do little when shit like this goes down. Even armed societies aren't trained to handle with this phenomenon without a clear and immediate form of leadership and direction.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

 

[jdhu]

Wow, my last post got quite misconstrued! I have no problems with Entopic or anybody else on here. The point I was making was that there was quite an initial volley of anger about the video and the purported sheeples that did nothing to stop Fro-Ninja and his back-flipping, stranger-humping, sky-cycling rampage.

But the second a BARFer claimed to know the guy, the crowd/mob's "anger" subsided quite quickly, as evidenced by the number of posts and the verbage and the volume of verbage contained within them.

Just a wee sociological observation I made.

Interesting, but what was your point? Strictly curious. Was it that wannabe tough-guy BARFers are all talk, and when a friend of the "artist" shows up, everyone stops talking about how they would have kicked his ass?