Danny Kim case update

[sidewazzz]

Nah. He left the track right where the exit curb started. That's definitely an impact zone, its definitely a place where a rider that crashes mid-corner can end up.

It'd be stupid for someone to stand or leave a bike where the sandbags are... cuz its an impact zone.

I mean sure if you wanted to argue a bike could hit you then yes trust me there is no safe spot on the track.... leaving the bike there. Sure if the rider got up and was out of the way the bike would have probably stayed till the end of the session when the crash truck went out.


There is Blake young sending it at speed on the exit not mid corner... falls short of that spot. HIGHLY unlikely a trackday rider is gonna send it like that.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c25b3Bg6ww8[/YOUTUBE]

Ya boy has a crash in a very uncommon spot hence why the sand bags are there... crashes don't happen in the spot all that much if any.

 

[stangmx13]

^^ It took you 10min of searching to find a video of someone almost making it to that spot and you think that makes it unlikely? Cuz everyone crashes exactly like that one? Ugh!

We will never agree on the definition of an impact zone.

 

[89fj]

I'll agree there probably shouldn't have been sand bags in that area but watching the video again I think it's kinda fishy how there just happens to be someone with a tail cam recording that.

 

[budman]

Nothing fishy bro. Just there. Planning this?

Doubt your saying that but the inference is there.

Shit happened and here they are.

 

[sidewazzz]

^^ It took you 10min of searching to find a video of someone almost making it to that spot and you think that makes it unlikely? Cuz everyone crashes exactly like that one? Ugh!

We will never agree on the definition of an impact zone.

No.... it took me about 5 seconds. see I picked Blakes crash because you said
That's definitely an impact zone, its definitely a place where a rider that crashes mid-corner can end up. when I know for a fact you crash mid corner at T5 at Laguna you're gonna end up no where near those sand bags. I picked Blakes crash to prove even at pro speed high siding on the exit you wont each those bags (close but still not there).

you're right about never agreeing on a impact zone... to me anywhere on the track is an impact zone... anywhere. It ceases to amaze me how much riders can royally mess up riding (especial B & C riders). I've almost been taken out while on the inside part of tracks and way out in open field.

Now Mr Kim made a weird off road adventure at a spot nobody really does that. In all my years going to Laguna I can't think of anyone doing that actually I think I've seen one pro go off for a split second. Does Kim have a case??? sure anyone can have a case they just need to convince others it's valid. example Redbull being sued for not giving customers wings when they had a drink.

At the end of the day... I'm on the side of Kim just owning he fucked up, was riding over his ability and crashed. Makes me wonder though... if he managed to run into the wall and break his leg would he still be blaming others?

 

[sidewazzz]

Nothing fishy bro. Just there. Planning this?

Doubt your saying that but the inference is there.

Shot happened and here they are.

Really not far fetched... I was thinking the same thing for a moment.

How many times had that rider been through that corner that day or ever?

Kinda reminds me of a fishing boat capt down here that sank his boat for insurance payout.

 

[EEL]

Objectively, I have to agree that responsibility of track safety falls on the owner of the track. The track day provider is leasing their services and is only responsible for the organization of the event and ensuring that track rules are followed by those who attend the event.

Kegwins should counter sue to recoup the legal costs incurred

 

[motomania2007]

Kegwins should counter sue to recoup the legal costs incurred

That was dealt with when the case against Kegwins was dismissed.

Kegwins insurance paid for their legal defense. Legal defense is one of the services you pay for when your buy liability insurance.

 

[Hooli]

Maybe had Daniel attended the rider's meeting that morning, things would have turned out different?

 

[Paulo666]

Daniel Kim has also sued McDonald’s for still feeling depressed after eating a Happy Meal.


F that guy. Entitled dbag.

 

[motomania2007]

A law school hypothetical:

If your wife was walking through the local grocery store and slipped, fell, hit her head, was knocked unconscious and suffered a serious, but recoverable brain injury.

She slipped on a freshly mopped spot in the store that was not identified with some sort of a sign nor blocked off so she couldn't walk through it.

Are you saying she should have seen that it was slick and she's an adult she should know she shouldn't walk into slick spots and if she's did, she assumed the risk?

Because that's legally what you are saying if you are saying Mr Kim has no right to sue to be compensated.

Again just to be clear I couldn't care less about Mr Kim one way or the other. But I also think that it is not reasonable for a dedicated runoff area was not safe to use as a dedicated runoff area unless otherwise instructed or indicated.

Would you have the same response if Danny boy blew his engine at the exit of turn 5 and stood the bike up and ran off the track and then crashed when he hit the sandbag?

 

[sidewazzz]

A law school hypothetical:

If your wife was walking through the local grocery store and slipped, fell, hit her head, was knocked unconscious and suffered a serious, but recoverable brain injury.

She slipped on a freshly mopped spot in the store that was not identified with some sort of a sign nor blocked off so she couldn't walk through it.

Are you saying she should have seen that it was slick and she's an adult she should know she shouldn't walk into slick spots and if she's did, she assumed the risk?

Because that's legally what you are saying if you are saying Mr Kim has no right to sue to be compensated.

Again just to be clear I couldn't care less about Mr Kim one way or the other. But I also think that it is not reasonable for a dedicated runoff area was not safe to use as a dedicated runoff area unless otherwise instructed or indicated.

Would you have the same response if Danny boy blew his engine at the exit of turn 5 and stood the bike up and ran off the track and then crashed when he hit the sandbag?

Slipping on a slippery grocery store floor like that would be equal to Laguna putting a invisible sand bag in the middle of the track in the racing line and not telling anyone about it.

This crash in reverse is equal to your wife running max speed in the grocery store. Then deciding because she cant make the turn for the next isle she would instead jump on top of the shelf to try and make the turn that way.... only to fall and break their leg and then blame the store for shelves that are too high.

 

[motomania2007]

Slipping on a slippery grocery store floor like that would be equal to Laguna putting a invisible sand bag in the middle of the track in the racing line and not telling anyone about it.

This crash in reverse is equal to your wife running max speed in the grocery store. Then deciding because she cant make the turn for the next isle she would instead jump on top of the shelf to try and make the turn that way.... only to fall and break their leg and then blame the store for shelves that are too high.

I could explain why you're wrong and every one of your points or I could just tell you you're wrong on every one of your points but you don't want to hear it so I'm not going to waste my time. You don't understand the law.

 

[Enchanter]

sidewazzz: so you’re saying that Laguna Seca’s responsibility ends when the vehicle leaves the paved section of the track?

Are there any differences in these two hypothetical events?

You went off track, lost traction and fell over in the ‘run-off’ or ‘gravel-trap’ and broke your wrist.

You went off track, lost traction and fell over in the ‘run-off’ or ‘gravel-trap’ and broke your wrist, and was impaled by some re-bar that was just below the surface of the gravel.

 

[sidewazzz]

I could explain why you're wrong and every one of your points or I could just tell you you're wrong on every one of your points but you don't want to hear it so I'm not going to waste my time. You don't understand the law.

I get what you're saying and I'm even going to go as far to say Kim has an argument... still not gonna change my opinion on a out of control rider doing some out of control shit and happens to hit some sandbags.

 

[Kurosaki]

This is a continuation from the first thread when this happened and someone please correct me if I'm wrong... this doesn't happen ever.

Just thinking of my experience with track days, the first session of a track day and the first lap, while getting tires up to heat, or any session involves taking inventory of the track conditions on the pavement or off.

I understand the arguments from anyone presenting reasons why a court decision might not end in the way we want for all of us track enthusiasts. Not because they are siding with Kim but because there's a legitimate argument that could end in a way that sets a precedent I don't think anyone here wants.

But if I'm choosing a side, anything that happens after you sign the waiver for a track day is on you and your insurance if necessary. Or if it's a collision of two riders, sorting that out between the riders and their insurance.

If there's a precedent set that we can sue the track day provider or the track owners (win or lose) with legally defensible arguments for why you deserve to be compensated for an incident while you were out on the track, track days will die. Even racing could be next.

That may be Chicken Little Sky Falling mentality... It's just the opinion of someone who's career is often navigated by what precedent settled in the court room.

 

[tzrider]

I could explain why you're wrong and every one of your points or I could just tell you you're wrong on every one of your points but you don't want to hear it so I'm not going to waste my time. You don't understand the law.

Neither do you if you think that hitting a sandbag off the riding surface at a racetrack where you signed a liability waiver is equivalent to your wife slipping on a wet floor at the supermarket.

 

[sidewazzz]

sidewazzz: so you’re saying that Laguna Seca’s responsibility ends when the vehicle leaves the paved section of the track?

Are there any differences in these two hypothetical events?

You went off track, lost traction and fell over in the ‘run-off’ or ‘gravel-trap’ and broke your wrist.

You went off track, lost traction and fell over in the ‘run-off’ or ‘gravel-trap’ and broke your wrist, and was impaled by some re-bar that was just below the surface of the gravel.

Enchanter... Laguna has responsibility... but to what extent? There have been millions of dollars spent on that track to make it safer than ever. its super fing nice compared to everything else we have. The sandbags are there to make the "TRACK" safer as it helps divert water and dirt from running across the track when it rains. The bags are in an area that well... nothing ever really happens and that's probably why they are there.

At the end of the day your rebar thing isn't this. It's not even the gravel trap. I wouldn't even put it in the area of the impact zone for that corner. This is part of the track that happens to not have a wall and just open field which apparently during rainy season also has sandbags to divert water from running into the track.

I've seen riders run off track for good reason to only crash by hitting walls, tires, ditches, mud, other bikes, cones and large rocks. Can't think of a single one that didn't own their mistake or try to blame the track for negligence.

Its extremely hard for me to go with Laguna being Negligent in this case because the whole reason the rider ended up of course in a weird spot was from being out of control. And yes, a rider trying to make a turn but can't and runs off track is out of control.

 

[motomania2007]

Sidewazz and TZrider you really need to get in touch with reality as you are in some Dreamland place.

I made a really simple explanation of the law in this case. If you can't wrap your head around it I don't know what else to tell you.

I urge you to read real legal texts because right now you're spouting off about things you don't know anything about and that reflects really poorly on your intellect or you are severely disconnected from reality.

 

[tzrider]

George, Laguna placed the sandbags there to make the track surface safer during a season where it rains frequently and there was a runoff problem. If they had to choice between making the riding surface safer and making the sand safer, they did the right thing. That’s another way in which your analogy has no relationship to this case.

To say we can’t “get our heads around” your grade school example is foolish.