Do Harley's Attract More Women?

[Lucky13xx]

Sorry to disagree. Bold fonts or extra periods added in a sentence do not make a statement more true. I agree that rape is never funny. A joke is funny. Same can be said about hyperbole of a guy getting "ass-raped". People are too sensitive.

I strongly believe that nobody on this thread advocates the use of chloroform, and also that nobody reading this thread is now more likely to use chloroform. Flame me if you like.

Well put. The path I was steering towards. If offensive "joke" topics are getting a TOS look, I vote we add death, accidents, domestic violence and alcoholism. All topics that are sensitive and life altering. No one would joke about those topics right? Find a member that hasn't been affected by at least 1 of those.

I come to BARF for a little knowledge, some comradery, opposing view points and humor. This was a light, silly topic. How it arrived here...............well that's why I love this forum

 

[Daks]

This is barf

if people are allowed to be blatant racists, sexists and xenophobes because enough assholes yell "free speech" and the admins and mods cave in, what's one more rape joke?

I don't come here for the people. Once you start expecting more from a community you just end up disappointed.

I don't come to barf because it makes me feel included in the motorcycling community. I post shit about motorcycles, maybe ask a question and fuck off.
If you want meaningful conversation with good people, meet them offline. The apologists don't tend to rear their heads in public and don't last when they do.

 

[mrmarklin]

It was, then it turned into why rape is/isn't funny and now we're dwelling on if jdan007 oppresses all women and why

How does my owning a Harley oppress women?

'cause that's kind of what some seem to be saying here......

 

[Z3n]

Well put. The path I was steering towards. If offensive "joke" topics are getting a TOS look, I vote we add death, accidents, domestic violence and alcoholism. All topics that are sensitive and life altering. No one would joke about those right? Find a member that hasn't been affected by at least 1 of those.

I come to BARF for a little knowledge, some comradery, opposing view points and humor. This was a light, silly topic. How it arrived here...............well that's why forum

There's a difference between "sensitive and life threatening" and "sexualized violation primarily focused on women as a means of oppression". For those that dont understand the psychology of rape, it's a based around power and dominance, not sex. Death and accidents aren't primarily related to using sex as a weapon, usually against women. Alcoholism has some connotations against people of some ethnic backgrounds, but isnt something that people generally inflict on one another - most people these days understand that alcholism is a disease, based on the body of scientific research. Domestic violence is borderline for the same reason rape is - a forum full of domestic violence posts is highly unlikely to be a welcoming location towards women, as again, it's a crime typically focused on maintaining dominance over women.

It's typical but disappointing that more people don't understand the difference between what is a sensitive topic (we have restrictions around what you can say in a RIP thread) and what creates a very hostile evironment for women. You make a rape joke here and you are pretty much statisically guaranteed to be making it to a rape victim. BARF is a much larger stage than people think.

And if you're the sort of person who tells a rape victim to just harden up and stop being so sensitive - you're a really terrible person, and I don't think you have any place in a community that is, as per the TOS, supposed to be welcoming to all.

Sorry to disagree. Bold fonts or extra periods added in a sentence do not make a statement more true. I agree that rape is never funny. A joke is funny. Same can be said about hyperbole of a guy getting "ass-raped". People are too sensitive.

I strongly believe that nobody on this thread advocates the use of chloroform, and also that nobody reading this thread is now more likely to use chloroform. Flame me if you like.

You can believe that if you want but you're disagreeing with a pile of scientific literature on how people normalize behaviors when they're exposed to them. I linked to it a few pages back.

 

[Lunch Box]

This is barf

if people are allowed to be blatant racists, sexists and xenophobes because enough assholes yell "free speech" and the admins and mods cave in, what's one more rape joke?

I don't come here for the people. Once you start expecting more from a community you just end up disappointed.

I don't come to barf because it makes me feel included in the motorcycling community. I post shit about motorcycles, maybe ask a question and fuck off.
If you want meaningful conversation with good people, meet them offline. The apologists don't tend to rear their heads in public and don't last when they do.

Honestly, I take offense to this post. BARF and its members do a lot of great things for a lot of people. We support one another in times of need, and many of us participate productively in all sorts of debates and discussions. The very fact that we are having this lively debate in this thread is an example of the progress that continues to be made.

This debate wouldn't happen on any other moto forum with which I've ever been involved. Instead, the misogyny and rape jokes would be flying around and nobody would even bat an eye. I suppose that what I am asking is that you actually try to become part of the community before you bash it and its members.

Like any community, we have bad seeds. Instead of taking their posts to heart and checking-out, try to help educate and enlighten them.

 

[Z3n]

How does my owning a Harley oppress women?

'cause that's kind of what some seem to be saying here......

No one's saying that. What people are saying is it's shitty and demeaning to many of the posters and readers on this site to imply that they are objects to be attracted. A harley was just the thing that was used to attract women assuming they are objects. Could have been anything else too. It's specifically bad because that sort of objectification is very typical for women and almost completely alien to men. Men don't have the same cultural demands around their sexuality as an object like women do, which is why the rape thing is very hostile.

Also there's a significant difference from wanting to make a good impression by being well kept and acting well, and implying that the right combination of object ownership will cause woman to sleep with you.

 

[redtail]

I don't come here for the people.

Ouch, that hurt.

I do, the people here for the most part are pretty cool, give honest opinions and give their help generously when needed. I know this thread went down hill due to an off hand and insensitive comment. But I feel the apologies were sincere, so I'm not willing to throw the whole community into the toilet because somebody made a mistake.

 

[danate]

All this rape talk is really offending me. Can we move on to something less controversial like abortion or gay marriage? (*SARCASM ALERT FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T TELL*)

This thread has turned into a lynch mob. Once nice thing about Barf is that at times it can act like a family (I guess that makes Daks the teenager), which has the nice ability to move on and let bygones be bygones. Nobody got raped in this thread. It was just one tasteless remark that was apologized for. Let's all be adults and move on.

 

[Lunch Box]

I guess that makes Daks the teenager

 

[domingo3]

You can believe that if you want but you're disagreeing with a pile of scientific literature on how people normalize behaviors when they're exposed to them. I linked to it a few pages back.

I read the blog post that you linked to, and also clicked through to the scientific papers referenced that loosely tie into the bloggers opinions. I don't believe that the post that incited all of this discussion is an example of a joke that normalizes rape behavior.

The idea that a woman wearing a certain kind of clothes and "asking for it" is something most people would reject, but a few people would accept. This is a problem, and this is what I believe is a rape normalizing type of joke that should not be told.

The topic of using chloroform to subdue someone into unconsciousness is something that is so obviously wrong, that anyone would reject it. Well, anyone except for someone who is so far gone from morality or mental stability that they are beyond hope and would commit crimes with or without any normalizing jokes. It's polarizing enough that anyone would recognize the use of chloroform as criminal, regardless of what was or wasn't done to the victim afterwards.

 

[jet057]

Harley's since the Beginning

Harleys always had and still attract women of all age's and style's long as the rider wasn't a dirty slob along w/ a dirty bike.In all my years of riding group and bike night's it attracts them ,it's simple to get on and most guys always have an extra lid w/ them,I know this i was once an owner....

 

[Toast]

I was seriously just looking at your avatar and was wondering when you were gonna wander in this thread.

 

[Lunch Box]

Harleys always had and still attract women of all age's and style's long as the rider wasn't a dirty slob along w/ a dirty bike.In all my years of riding group and bike night's it attracts them ,it's simple to get on and most guys always have an extra lid w/ them,I know this i was once an owner....

Wh'y do y'ou use s'o damned many apos'troph'es's's's'???

 

[Z3n]

That's actually the point that the research makes - that the obviously offensive stuff, even that which should be obviously fake, still normalizes behavior. Exposure desensitize people.

In this case, if the joke is legitimately funny, it also shouldn't be exclusionary - jokes that punch down on minority groups are funny to those that don't live with that oppression day in, day out. In fact, that joke is more of a marker for someone who doesnt have to worry about being raped than it is actually a joke. Chances are you're only going to find it funny if part of your daily routine isn't sizing that guy up for if he's going to sexually assault you or not.

If you can make a rape joke that is funny to rape victims as well, it's a rape joke worth telling. Those aren't rape jokes though, generally, they're jokes that show how fucked up social attitudes around sexuality and objectification are. Louis CK is a genius at these sort of jokes, which is one of the reasons I keep referring back to him.

 

[TrackCage]

Many times I've told women I own a motorcycle and asked if they would like to go for a ride. Did I buy the motorcycle to get laid? No, I bought it because I like motorcycles. Did I use the tools I had at my disposure? Sure. Does that make me a bad person? I don’t think so. I didn’t go out looking for “any tail.” I brought it up once I had targeted the woman of interest.

This train went off the tracks with the chloroform joke. I get that and I don’t think anyone is saying rape is funny. But this debate is no longer constructive. Threads that derail and go way off topic is one of the things I dislike about internet forums. IMO the OP was trying to poke some fun and instead hit a nerve. If you feel differently, you're entitled to your opinion. Now drop your pitchfork and move along. The barf gangbang is over (oops, was that not funny too?) [<<< Meant as a joke. Please don’t take too literally since I know everyone’s a little juiced up right now]

 

[Lunch Box]

The barf gangbang is over (oops, was that not funny too?) [<<< Meant as a joke. Please don’t take too literally since I know everyone’s a little juiced up right now]

No, no. You're good. There is almost always some humor in a consensual gangbang.

 

[Hooli]

Wh'y do y'ou use s'o damned many apos'troph'es's's's'???

Son of Louemc?

 

[Z3n]

I find it sort of amusing that people think the pitchforks are out. The idea here is pretty simple - set things up so that this conversation doesnt have to happen again and an otherwise well meaning person understands this isnt the place to make exclusionary jokes that punch down at rape victims.

The folks who made a joke without thinking it through have apologized, been forgiven, and now people are discussing the core problem / if the core problem should be addressed. It's all been very civil and respectful in general.

 

[ilikefood]

Disagree. Just because someone wants to know what is more likely to attract women, whether it's the type of bike, clothes, body, hairstyle, or pickup line, doesn't mean he thinks ALL women will be attracted by it, or that he intends to fuck any woman that is. That doesn't make sense.

You disagree with what exactly? I only explained why many people are upset with this thread. It's not a starting point for a debate, it's an explanation of a fact. You really can't "disagree" with someone being upset about something. You can't debate someone out of being upset. You can only understand why that person is upset so you can avoid doing the same thing again. Or you can ignore everything if you don't care about upsetting people. By the way, I'm using the general "you" here; this isn't directed at you specifically.

If you're talking about the actual intention of the OP, I already said earlier that I don't think his intention was quite like what I described. He most likely wrote it without thinking about it much. But his intention really doesn't matter. The main point here is why what he wrote upset people, not what OP's intentions were.

 

[ilikefood]

This thread has turned into a lynch mob. Once nice thing about Barf is that at times it can act like a family (I guess that makes Daks the teenager), which has the nice ability to move on and let bygones be bygones. Nobody got raped in this thread. It was just one tasteless remark that was apologized for. Let's all be adults and move on.

I really don't see the "lynch mob" thing at all. I see people calmly and patiently explaining why various posts in this thread can be upsetting to people. This challenges some other people's unexamined, unspoken assumptions, which can be uncomfortable. But being challenged to think about why you believe and say certain things, and how those things can hurt people, is hardly a "lynch mob".