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Flat Track Racing Mega Thread - INCLUDES SPOILERS!

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was talking about the leather rule. Its a lot harder to get a few sets of custom made dirt-track specific leathers. Most are made by small operations. Don't see a lot of Dianese, Joe Rocket or Alpinestar on the grid. The fast pros can make some money from TLD or FOX, Fl or others and the product is a lot cheaper to produce. Big money companies vs. low dollar mom-and-pop operations. Pretty much anyone fast enough to qualify for a GNC1 or GNC2 event can get free MX gear from a manufacturer or local shop. Not so much with leathers.

They have had a spec tire rule. The "Goodyears" were made by Dunlop. No one was getting any tire money anyway so this isn't much of a change, AFKAIK.

Twins rule for GNC2 seems foolish to me. The fast Kawasakis in GNC1 are far from stock stroke and bore. I believe GNC2 only gets to ride these bikes at Springfield so it makes sense to be restrictive rather than having the teams build or rent an expensive bike for two races a year.

Daytona short track should be safe as its a France family property. Not looking forward to watching twins there in 2017. It will be a mess. As for Peoria, I don't even want to think about it going away. Its my favorite motorcycle race of any kind.
 
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Thanks for clarifying. The new Big Kahuna is supposed to be pretty smart, and maybe he'll turn out to be right, but I'm not encouraged.

*edit* I just followed the link in the article to the pdf of the rules, and found that things do not appear to be quite as dire as I had thought - at least regarding the implications for Peoria.

For GNC1, twin-cylinder motorcycles are the primary machines and will
be used for Mile and Half-Mile circuits while single-cylinder motorcycles
will be used for Short Track and TT events.
 
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Doesn't that just apply to 2016? My understanding is the no-singles-for-GNC1-events rule has been proposed for 2017. Michael Lock seemed to support this change in his recent interview.
 
Doesn't that just apply to 2016? My understanding is the no-singles-for-GNC1-events rule has been proposed for 2017. Michael Lock seemed to support this change in his recent interview.

It does say 2016, but I haven't found anywhere that its says it will be different for 2017. :dunno Not sure that means anything though.
 
the deck-chair re-arranging continues [not that there's anything wrong with that]:


Ludington is new AMA Pro rules guy

".....responsible for forecasting and implementing necessary rule changes as AMA Pro begins the process of modernizing the AMA Pro Flat Track class structure in advance of the 2017 season.

He will also oversee the technical inspection process at all AMA Pro Flat Track events
....."


http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/ludington-appointed-technical-director-for-ama-pro-racing/
 
Good news about Luddington.




Just saw this linked from the FT thread on ADVrider.com

http://amaproracing.cdn.racersites.com/assets/AMAP-FT-Tech-Bulletin-2016-01.pdf?utm_source=Tech+-+Bull+#2016-01&utm_campaign=COMP+-+Bull+#2016-01&utm_medium=email


To: All AMA Pro Flat Track Competitors Date: January 6, 2016
Effective Date: Immediately
Subject: Riding Suits/Gloves

With the release of AMA Pro Flat Track Competitor Bulletin #2015-08, AMA Pro Racing indicated that leathers would be required at all events in 2016. However, as the rule was not officially changed until the release of the 2016 Technical Rules, the following revision has been made to the 2016 AMA Pro Flat Track rulebook:

3.25 Rider Apparel
c. Riding Suit/Gloves
i. Beginning in (2016 strikethrough) 2017, only leather riding suits are permitted. In 2016, the use of leather riding suits are mandated for all Twins races and strongly recommended for Singles races. Riders must wear a complete leather suit with additional leather padding or other protection on the prin- cipal contact points, knees, elbows, shoulders, hips, etc.
 
Apparently FT needs to raise ticket prices and get more money from manufacturers. Wonderful insights.
 
so instead of making the product better, where theres lots of room for improvement, they just need more money :rolleyes
 
What would you change about the product?
 
What would you change about the product?

missed this last week

the number one thing for me is the broadcast. FansChoice.TV looks like it was made by some highschool kids with no design or web dev experience. its unprofessional and hardly functional. i really hope AMA isnt paying for that. on top of that, the actual stream is appalling. the graphics, the sound quality, the cameras, etc. its barely up to 1990s standards for a race broadcast. its so easy to find amateur content on youtube that is better produced, even live stuff. because of that, i suspect that most people expect more and are disappointed when it looks/feels like it does. not good.

number 2 for me is the content of the broadcast and the layout of the event. the event feels very "club race" to me. the races are banged out without much fanfare for the "main event". i like it when a series has something like a pitwalk to put faces to names, some footage that really defines the race. even though Supercross doesnt do this, they usually have an intermission segment or something that separates the Mains from the Heats. and theyve got that big fire thing for the start :laughing.

number 3 is something they are already working on, the rulebook and the classes. GNC1 is tougher competition and vastly more experienced, so they need to be better differentiated from GNC2. id also propose that we need a GNC3, maybe 150cc bikes w/ an age limit of 21 years or something. just like the KTM Cup in MotoAmerica, we need to be introduced to RIDERS at a young age. a racing series is vastly more popular when people can follow riders, not just racing.

im sure i could think of more. really, it all boils down to the fact that everything about the product needs to be better except for the racing. the talent, the racing, all good. but ive never once though "oh this is awesome" when looking at the rest of the product.
 
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Thanks for responding. Good points all. I didn't know you even watched the FT races.



Agree about FansChoice production quality and professionalism. They are making small improvements each year. It will get better. For free, I'm not expecting MotoGP video subscription-level but FC sure could be better. Its one of the things new CEO Michael Lock addressed in a recent interview. I think he missed the mark with his solution (more canned content) but at least he's thinking about it. I would like more rider and team interviews. The current "on the grid" reporter is terrible. She never seems prepared and always asks the same questions no matter the situation. Makes for cringe-worthy viewing.

I'm not on board with a GNC3 class. There are plenty of really fast 16 year-olds on 450s. All the youth are already racing 450s at their local tracks 20 or 30 (or more) times a year. Putting them on some really small bikes won't showcase anything or help develop talent. It just makes them have to buy/build another bike. A bike that no one will want to watch on Half Miles or Miles. And another class to take up time at each event.

I like the idea of a clearer division between GNC1 and GNC2. I could see placing an age limit on the GNC2 class to reinforce the idea that its the junior class for those aspiring to race GNC1. Not sure how it would affect entries for GNC2, though.
 
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I like the idea of a clearer division between GNC1 and GNC2. I could see placing an age limit on the GNC2 class to reinforce the idea that its the junior class for those aspiring to race GNC1. Not sure how it would affect entries for GNC2, though.

If someone starts later in life, like 21, would that preclude them ever riding in nationals?
 
If someone starts later in life, like 21, would that preclude them ever riding in nationals?

Not at the moment. There are plenty of 40+ year-olds coming out to race GNC2. Making the main in either class at a National is a big accomplishment and I'm impressed by those who can do it no matter his or her age.

However, I can see the reasoning behind making the support class a pure stepping stone to the premier class by limiting the class to younger riders. Not sure I agree with it but I understand why it this idea would be proposed.
 
Thanks for responding. Good points all. I didn't know you even watched the FT races.

ya ive seen the incremental improvements to FC. but seriously, their product still looks like a beta. for 20k, i bet i could find 1-2 other guys and put together a better website in 2 months. AMA should have made that sort of initial investment (bigger actually) and had a better product by now. ill have to watch the interview to see if the CEO gets it or not.

everyone said the same thing about the RC390 Cup. the 16yr olds are already racing 600 in regional clubs, so why would they buy another bike to downsize. yet that grid was full and the talent out from was pretty good. winning on a RC390 was better exposure than even a top 10 in Superstock600. i bet the same would be true for a GNC3 class.

the youngest person in GNC1 to score points was born in '94. so even if a local kid is fast on a 450, they obviously didnt cut it w/ the big boys. the youngest kid with a profile to score points in GNC2 was born in '99 and he won a race. prob not worth it for him to step down to GNC3, but it could benefit a lot of other riders. of course, i had to look all these names up. i didnt know them off hand which is mostly my point. i have no idea who the "up and comers" are. compare that to Moto3 riders. even if u didnt follow the class, u prob heard of Fenati or Vinales before they were 17 yrs old.

at this point, it doesnt matter. AMA doesnt promote their current riders well enough. asking them to promote a whole new class would prob just make the situation worse. if AMA wants FT to relevant, their top riders need to be moto-household names. right now, their riders only get great exposure if they race with Marc Marquez which is sad.
 
ya ive seen the incremental improvements to FC. but seriously, their product still looks like a beta. for 20k, i bet i could find 1-2 other guys and put together a better website in 2 months. AMA should have made that sort of initial investment (bigger actually) and had a better product by now. ill have to watch the interview to see if the CEO gets it or not.

I don't think he does. Lock mentioned having more pre-recorded content as filler during down time or red flags. Every track will have a jumbotron in 2016 to keep the people in the stands occupied and informed during these down times. He used an example of a 40 minute delay for a red flag and having nothing to fill the time. Its a good example but I'm guessing most people went to get a beer or were staring at their smartphone during that time rather than wanting to watch repetitive ads on a jumbotron. I'd prefer to see them expand the already-good AMA Pro FT app to offer video and pre-recorded content so the fans have several options to choose from during intermissions/track prep or red flags. People already have screens right in their hands. Use them.


everyone said the same thing about the RC390 Cup. the 16yr olds are already racing 600 in regional clubs, so why would they buy another bike to downsize. yet that grid was full and the talent out from was pretty good. winning on a RC390 was better exposure than even a top 10 in Superstock600. i bet the same would be true for a GNC3 class.

I don't think this is really comparable. A 150 on a mile or half mile? They wouldn't even get sideways one entrances or exits. They would be pinned the entire lap. Nothing to learn about corner entry or exit. It would not be a compelling class. Most of these kids would barely fit on a 150. Even the CRF150R is a small bike for an adult.

The KTM class filled a need on many levels:
- A 600 is probably too much bike for most of 14-15-16 year olds. John Ulrich argued this several times on the WERA BBS. (A 450 isn't too much for this age group as we see in FT and SX/AX/MX all over the country.)
- The KTM was significantly cheaper to run (upfront cost, easier on tires, engine tune) and build than a 600.
- Due to the rules, all the RC Cup bikes looked the same so they were clearly different than 600s for spectators.
- MotoAmerica needed more classes over the course of a long weekend. Combined Superbike/1000stk, 600ss and 600stk doesn't take up much time even with two races.

A GNC3 class would squeeze an already tight schedule for practice, heats, LCQs and Mains.



the youngest person in GNC1 to score points was born in '94. so even if a local kid is fast on a 450, they obviously didnt cut it w/ the big boys. the youngest kid with a profile to score points in GNC2 was born in '99 and he won a race. prob not worth it for him to step down to GNC3, but it could benefit a lot of other riders. of course, i had to look all these names up. i didnt know them off hand which is mostly my point. i have no idea who the "up and comers" are. compare that to Moto3 riders. even if u didnt follow the class, u prob heard of Fenati or Vinales before they were 17 yrs old.

I'm not sure who these riders you reference are. Davis Fisher, who won the GNC2 championship and a bunch of the races was only 17 last season (turned 18 in November). He wasn't the youngest but he's representative of who's fast in GNC2.

GNC1 racer Dominic Colindres was born in 1994 and he was on the podium at Peoria, won a heat race at Springfield and Las Vegas and made a bunch of mains all while helping develop the new Yamaha. I'd say he was more than able to cut it with the big boys as he beat many experienced racers and a few past GNC1 national champs.



at this point, it doesnt matter. AMA doesnt promote their current riders well enough. asking them to promote a whole new class would prob just make the situation worse. if AMA wants FT to relevant, their top riders need to be moto-household names. right now, their riders only get great exposure if they race with Marc Marquez which is sad.

I'd argue that AMA has done a good job of exploiting the Marc Marquez connection. They've paid for the live streaming in the U.S for three years in a row and even supported the idea of an international indoor short track series. I'm not sure any racing series could imagine better exposure than to have the MotoGP media talking about Marquez vs. Your Series' top rider for a couple of weeks. More people around the world know who Brad Baker and Jared Mees are than know who Josh Hayes or Cameron Beaubier are. Of course, I'd prefer to see more promotion at home but I don't know how one would determine that Baker is more of a household name that Hayes in the U.S. or vice versa. I'd love to see either racer on a Wheaties box like Ryan Dungey but thats a long way off.
 
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I don't think he does. Lock mentioned having more pre-recorded content as filler during down time or red flags. Every track will have a jumbotron in 2016 to keep the people in the stands occupied and informed during these down times. He used an example of a 40 minute delay for a red flag and having nothing to fill the time. Its a good example but I'm guessing most people went to get a beer or were staring at their smartphone during that time rather than wanting to watch repetitive ads on a jumbotron. I'd prefer to see them expand the already-good AMA Pro FT app to offer video and pre-recorded content so the fans have several options to choose from during intermissions/track prep or red flags. People already have screens right in their hands. Use them.

the jumbotron is good news. i think all race events need those. i hope they use it to show the race too, slo-mo highlights, interviews, etc. itd be a shame if it just sat there blank and was only used for commercials.

i havent checked out the app.

I don't think this is really comparable. A 150 on a mile or half mile? They wouldn't even get sideways one entrances or exits. They would be pinned the entire lap. Nothing to learn about corner entry or exit. It would not be a compelling class. Most of these kids would barely fit on a 150. Even the CRF150R is a small bike for an adult.

A GNC3 class would squeeze an already tight schedule for practice, heats, LCQs and Mains.

good points. there are def holes in my GNC3 idea... which is why im not writing the rulebook :laughing

SX and MX function without 3 classes because they promote the 250 guys just as well as the 450 guys. we know the top 10 there long before they can make the jump to 450. FT, not so much.

I'm not sure who these riders you reference are. Davis Fisher, who won the GNC2 championship and a bunch of the races was only 17 last season (turned 18 in November). He wasn't the youngest but he's representative of who's fast in GNC2.

GNC1 racer Dominic Colindres was born in 1994 and he was on the podium at Peoria, won a heat race at Springfield and Las Vegas and made a bunch of mains all while helping develop the new Yamaha. I'd say he was more than able to cut it with the big boys as he beat many experienced racers and a few past GNC1 national champs.

is Fisher moving to GNC1 next year at 18?

born in 94' makes Dominic 20-21 last year. in other series if u are still hanging around in the 3rd class at 21, its likely u already dont have the talent. so i dont think he applies to my idea of GNC3.

Of course, I'd prefer to see more promotion at home but I don't know how one would determine that Baker is more of a household name that Hayes in the U.S. or vice versa. I'd love to see either racer on a Wheaties box like Ryan Dungey but thats a long way off.

exactly
 
Yes. Fisher is moving to GNC1 for 2016.

I was using Colindres as an example because you mentioned the youngest GNC1 rider to score points was born in 1994. Maybe I misread your comment but I'm not understanding what you are saying about 21 year olds in a possible GNC3 class.

Any ideas for better promotion in the US for road racing or FT?

Getting into the X-Games and presenting FT racers along side Xtreme MX stars and other extreme sports athletes was/is a really good idea. Kawasaki and Monster Energy sure liked it as they both jumped in for that event and maintained sponsorships for the rest of the season. Expanding reach via YouTube and social media should help. If a few videos of road racing or FT could reach even a 1/4 of what a Ken Block or Travis Pastrana video does, that would be huge. Better than a TV deal on an obscure cable network.
 
2016 AMA Pro Flat Track schedule announced.

New tracks for this season are COTA, Phoenix, OK City, Somewhere in NY state and somewhere in SoCal. I'm guessing the TBA NorCal date is Calistoga.

2016 AMA Pro Flat Track Schedule:
March 10: DAYTONA Flat Track I – Daytona International Speedway, Daytona Beach, Fla.
March 11: DAYTONA Flat Track II – Daytona International Speedway, Daytona Beach, Fla.
April 9: Circuit of the Americas, Austin, Texas
May 14: Arizona Mile – Turf Paradise, Phoenix, Ariz.
May 21: Sacramento Mile – Cal Expo Fair, Sacramento, Calif.
May 29: Springfield Mile I – Illinois State Fairgrounds, Springfield, Ill.
June 18: Oklahoma City Mile – Remington Park, Oklahoma City, Okla.
June 25: Lima Half-Mile – Allen County Fairgrounds, Lima, Ohio
July 30: Charlotte Half-Mile – Charlotte Motor Speedway, Charlotte, N.C.
August 9: Sturgis Half-Mile – Black Hills Speedway, Rapid City, S.D.
August 14: Peoria TT – Peoria Motorcycle Club, Peoria, Ill.
August 20: TBA, New York State
September 4: Springfield Mile II – Illinois State Fairgrounds, Springfield, Ill.
September 17: TBA, Southern California
Early October: TBA, Northern California
 
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