Free Racing at BW!

[ZXR400SP]

You thinking wrong bike. I was referring to our Aprilia.

Forgot about that one, I was thinking it was the VFR450's with the expensive breaking cranks. Pretty sure there was 20K or more in them too.

 

[TWF]

Rest of my post say exactly what you guys saying, that you don't have to spend money on new bike to race 450 class.
I did not bring FZ07 in conversation, you guys did. And you proving my point, you don't need FZ07 to be competitive in class.
We pretty much agree with everything except you guys can't admit that new bikes for your class cost more which by default makes class more expensive.

 

[TWF]

Forgot about that one, I was thinking it was the VFR450's with the expensive breaking cranks. Pretty sure there was 20K or more in them too.

Yea, we had over 20 in it, how is that for cheap 450
It was fastest bike on grid back than. Don't think it would keep up now.

 

[ZXR400SP]

Yea, we had over 20 in it, how is that for cheap 450
It was fastest bike on grid back than. Don't think it would keep up now.

Nope, though I'm sure with the right racer it would do well. Hell, Elena did 56's at Thill on a 125, are those legal for FIV?

 

[TWF]

Wrong, try again, it was Ian and his Gixxer I was referring to, weight is closer but Dan is still heavier, but then again so am I. Nevertheless my point is still the same. Dan made up all his ground in the corners and lost it on the straights. I've also raced my ZXR400 against them too, Ian and Coats both had a Hp advantage. I've been racing 400's since 2002, I might have a clue.

And after that season riding the wheels out of that 400 he wanted new r6 crippled. I had to talk him out of it.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

The FZ07R is badass, it makes me drool, I'm sure you're doing awesome stuff with it but on average, it's not nearly as easy or as cheap as a 450 cripple. Why can't you get that through your head? It's not a slam on the FZ07R, it's just a different animal.

Leave the cripples alone, they're a funky little animal but they serve a purpose and the people in the class are pretty cool.

Couldnt agree with you more, hence why I started racing cripples and not the SV. Good, helpful people.

I dont see what the big deal is, is it that the cripples are becoming the go to beginner bike instead of the SV? Is it taking business from Zoran? What gives man, what is his beef?

 

[dsapsis]

You guys all have short memory, There was $20k + bike already in 450 class

The Sickle motorsickle!

 

[patrykb]

And after that season riding the wheels out of that 400 he wanted new r6 crippled. I had to talk him out of it.

Quoted for posterity.

 

[ZXR400SP]

Couldnt agree with you more, hence why I started racing cripples and not the SV. Good, helpful people.

I dont see what the big deal is, is it that the cripples are becoming the go to beginner bike instead of the SV? Is it taking business from Zoran? What gives man, what is his beef?

No, it isn't taking his business, he's one of the top SV guys in the nation, not just the west coast. He's also raced and supported racing longer than anyone currently racing in the 450 class, in fact there aren't many in the AFM that have been around longer. The cripples are a good alternative for a lower powered bike. But just because most people are building them from a budget point of view doesn't mean you can't spend stupid money to put one together. At some point if the class continues to grow it will happen I'm sure. We've seen it in the past with the VFR's and the one off Aprilia 450. If the FZ07 takes off I'd bet it will become the next "beginner" bike.

 

[TWF]

One day maybe you guys figure it all out, maybe.

 

[afmotorsports]

No, it isn't taking his business, he's one of the top SV guys in the nation, not just the west coast. He's also raced and supported racing longer than anyone currently racing in the 450 class, in fact there aren't many in the AFM that have been around longer.

Yep, Zoran is a good dude for sure, but we both came here from eastern Europe so we're maybe I bit more 'direct' compared to the natives... Funny thing is Mickey trolled Z-man with that 'whatever TWF wants to run' comment and Z-man took the bait, hook, line and sinker! It's all good, everybody knows Mickey is a dhit sisturber!

If the FZ07 takes off I'd bet it will become the next "beginner" bike.

The stuff they're doing to FZ07s to turn them into racebikes is just fantastic. I saw Jason's bike posted on Facebook this morning and it's almost too beautiful to race. That said, the inherent problem with the FZ07 - just like with the SV650 - is that it's a commuter bike, not a racebike with lights like the 600's. It will always take a bunch more time and money to convert a FZ07, whereas track ready 600's are a dime a dozen and they're a better platform right off the showroom floor. No forks to change, no brakes to change, no triple clamps to change, and the frame is better than any SV650 or a FZ07, which is not something that can be magically fixed.

I wasn't really sure how this 'cripple' concept was going to work out when I first talked to Wally about it years ago, but it's turned out to be one of the best ideas to hit roadracing in a very long time.

 

[IgoFstNcorners]

"The stuff they're doing to FZ07s to turn them into racebikes is just fantastic. I saw Jason's bike posted on Facebook this morning and it's almost too beautiful to race. That said, the inherent problem with the FZ07 - just like with the SV650 - is that it's a commuter bike, not a racebike with lights like the 600's. It will always take a bunch more time and money to convert a FZ07, whereas track ready 600's are a dime a dozen and they're a better platform right off the showroom floor. No forks to change, no brakes to change, no triple clamps to change, and the frame is better than any SV650 or a FZ07, which is not something that can be magically fixed."


This thread keeps on twisting. Thank you guys for the kind words but go look at my picture again. Stock forks, it's a production based bike. I assure we have not spent no where 10K. As far as performance, I bought the bike and have yet to ride it. I will tell you after this weekend. It does come down to personal preference. I have raced every class and really enjoy the Twins. Ask the few guys who jumped from Twins to 600's how that went. Not so well. I am looking forward to seeing all you really soon Just my 2 ¢

 

[TWF]

The stuff they're doing to FZ07s to turn them into racebikes is just fantastic. I saw Jason's bike posted on Facebook this morning and it's almost too beautiful to race. That said, the inherent problem with the FZ07 - just like with the SV650 - is that it's a commuter bike, not a racebike with lights like the 600's. It will always take a bunch more time and money to convert a FZ07, whereas track ready 600's are a dime a dozen and they're a better platform right off the showroom floor. No forks to change, no brakes to change, no triple clamps to change, and the frame is better than any SV650 or a FZ07, which is not something that can be magically fixed.

Yep, no question 600 frame and forks and brakes are better than sv/fz. Unfortunately once you detune 600 engine to 80hp you got no advantage there. And if you know anything about setting bike you would know that more than needed can be as bad as not enough.
We have zero issues with our bikes handling, stock or gsxr forks. In fact I set up fz without ever riding it and it handles great, we did whole track day without changing single setting.
Cripples have advantage in engine department. Stock sv engine can not keep up with newer 600 cripples. It is on par with 1st gen cripples but not with newer ones.

 

[ZXR400SP]

The stuff they're doing to FZ07s to turn them into racebikes is just fantastic. I saw Jason's bike posted on Facebook this morning and it's almost too beautiful to race. That said, the inherent problem with the FZ07 - just like with the SV650 - is that it's a commuter bike, not a racebike with lights like the 600's. It will always take a bunch more time and money to convert a FZ07, whereas track ready 600's are a dime a dozen and they're a better platform right off the showroom floor. No forks to change, no brakes to change, no triple clamps to change, and the frame is better than any SV650 or a FZ07, which is not something that can be magically fixed.

I wasn't really sure how this 'cripple' concept was going to work out when I first talked to Wally about it years ago, but it's turned out to be one of the best ideas to hit roadracing in a very long time.

True, but you've been around long enough to see the "streetbikes" that were turned into race bikes. Remember the flexiflyer EX 500's. There was a lot of money thrown at them. Look at what Haazer will be racing this year, a legacy bike.

 

[afmotorsports]

True, but you've been around long enough to see the "streetbikes" that were turned into race bikes. Remember the flexiflyer EX 500's. There was a lot of money thrown at them.

Craig... buddy... you can't really put the old EX500 in the 'sportbike category' like modern 600's. The poor EX was almost as bad as the Ninjettes, with 80's technology, horrible frames, forks, brakes, you name it. Other than maybe the Moto2 chassis, a modern production 600 package is probably the best overall motorcycle you can buy. In fact, I would say that at least 90% of club racers and trackday riders will ultimately turn faster laptimes on a 600 than a fire breathing 1000. It really takes a lot more skill and talent to ride a 1000 at the limit than a 600.

More than a few people I know are dreaming of the day when the manufacturers will bring back 400's like your old racebike but they keep building big horsepower sportbikes. Probably some of the reasons why Palmer's and Zoran's FZ07 creations will be well received is that they're more mild mannered machines and by the time they're done tweaking them, they typically handle quite well too. The setup Zoran had on my old SV Prod bike (many moons ago) worked incredibly well considering it was a budget commuter bike. The brakes were still relatively sucky and the forks were so-so but they were decent enough - Jason's laptimes in 650P were pretty ridiculous when you think the bike itself wasn't all that spectacular.

 

[ZIM]

 

[afmotorsports]

Hey fartknocker, are you coming to Buttonwillow this weekend? Come hang out, you can crash in my rv on Saturday night if you want and then watch the races on Sunday. I'll also be in your neighborhood in a month for that same ride I did two years ago, so put that on your calendar too.

 

[TWF]

More than a few people I know are dreaming of the day when the manufacturers will bring back 400's like your old racebike but they keep building big horsepower sportbikes. Probably some of the reasons why Palmer's and Zoran's FZ07 creations will be well received is that they're more mild mannered machines and by the time they're done tweaking them, they typically handle quite well too. The setup Zoran had on my old SV Prod bike (many moons ago) worked incredibly well considering it was a budget commuter bike. The brakes were still relatively sucky and the forks were so-so but they were decent enough - Jason's laptimes in 650P were pretty ridiculous when you think the bike itself wasn't all that spectacular.

Exotic state of the art

 

[IgoFstNcorners]

Exotic state of the art

Looks great! I am so looking forward to this weekend.

 

[ZXR400SP]

Craig... buddy... you can't really put the old EX500 in the 'sportbike category' like modern 600's. The poor EX was almost as bad as the Ninjettes, with 80's technology, horrible frames, forks, brakes, you name it. Other than maybe the Moto2 chassis, a modern production 600 package is probably the best overall motorcycle you can buy. In fact, I would say that at least 90% of club racers and trackday riders will ultimately turn faster laptimes on a 600 than a fire breathing 1000. It really takes a lot more skill and talent to ride a 1000 at the limit than a 600.

It was just an example of the money some people will put into a racebike, whether it is a good platform for it or not. How much money do you think Bobby put into that 500 of his?