HD aging biker problem...

[LongGoneJohn]

Not to mention. All manufacturers are having trouble right now.

It's no secret that the more expensive bikes are having perhaps more trouble than others. People simply don't have money.

In the meantime, I'll keep enjoying my 2010 Street Glide.... the best street bike I've ever owned.

 

[1RUN]

I know it is very fashionable to hate harleys here on barf, but I ,once again, must state that I have co-workers who ride harleys to work every day, no matter what weather, and their bikes don't fall apart. They pretty much change oil, brakes, and tires just like everyone else.

I used to think harleys were unreliable too, but these guys ave changed my mind.

Another paranoid Harley defender

The point of this thread is to analyze what Harley can do to get themselves out of their downward sales spiral, and become more relevant moving forward...

 

[V4]

the open mind that is common on this board is missing some of the "reality" of the middle of the country: namely that in a lot of places in the US people are kind of conformist when it comes to vehicles and ~have to buy what everyone else around them buys. lots of these very average people do not want to be the only guy on the honda. it is weak minded, but common enough to be self re-enforcing. add "harley only parking" signs as needed and a group hallucination that a "lifestyle" can be bought and it becomes the ~only available choice for a huge percentage of the us.

lots of the flyover states have strong prejudices against "non-USA made" vehicles, despite the fact that their F-150 is might be made in canada, goldwings were made in ohio, or all their insta-biker harley logo gear is made in china. furthermore, lots of these "good-ole" folks especially fear and hate asia for making a better bike, and often just for lame ass racism and jingoism.

now i actually like harleys. i think they are really pretty, they sound cool, and they handle well enough for casual street riding and cruising, which is fine for many people.
that said, every time i actually put my own money down on a bike, it hasnt yet gone to harley because there are always other bikes i like better.

arty

well said...

 

[serazin]

Another paranoid Harley defender

The point of this thread is to analyze what Harley can do to get themselves out of their downward sales spiral, and become more relevant moving forward...

And just how does that make me paranoid? If the point of the thread was to analyze harley's marketing why is it then ok for other to post that harleys fall apart, when in fact they do not just fall apart.

Nay, it is not I that is paranoid for not following the accepted path on barf of bashing harleys and all those who ride them. Truly paranoid people will follow the rest of the herd, lest they attract negative attention to themselves. I don't care for the harley "lifestyle" or the look or any of that. But to blindly parrot that they fall apart when I know that is not the case would be wrong.

..and perhaps paranoid..

 

[psychocandy]

i think HD is definitely making inroads to a younger market that may keep them on top for years still. I think the biggest deterrent for young'uns getting into the HD lifestyle was the associated cost. whether you got yr $$$ via business, crime or mommy & daddy, that was the only way to play. either that, or you had the time & garage space to turn a box of parts into a working bike.

sure, Harleys are still pretty expensive, but Sportsters are actually pretty economical and make it easy to get into the brand. only insecure dentists and people who've never ridden a motorcycle in their life will make fun of you for riding a "girl's bike" (well, the 883s are still pretty pansy ). plus, most of the people I know under 40 who've wanted Harleys are more into the lean & low look of Sportsters and would love to have one to turn into an old school bobber looking thing.

sure, maybe when they get older and richer, they'll start looking at Dynas & Fat Boys. but now, Nightsters and the XR (which is basically a hot rodded Sportster are the kind of bikes that catch their eyes.

 

[flying_hun]

I can't understand that HD did not see this coming.

At one point they did. In 1986 when they were flush with cash from their IPO, they purchased Holiday-Rambler, an RV manufacturer. They thought lots of their customer base overlapped, and that as they aged they would buy RV's. HD sold H-R in 1996, so I guess it didn't work out they way they hoped.

That said, I live in sportbike nirvana and HD's are on the road up here 5 to 1. Go figure.

This is a key point. Over Labor Day weekend I rode to Oregon and back. I would guess that even on twisty backroads that I saw ten to twenty cruisers for every spr0tbile. If even half of those are Harleys, that suggests that HD is not alone in its problems.

Not to mention. All manufacturers are having trouble right now.

QFT. Other manufacturers are having problems not only because sales are down due to the economy, other manufacturers also have a demographic problems. The mean age of motorcyclists today is much older than was the case in the 70's and 80's. Not as many young adults are attracted to motorcycles as was once the case. The issue for the entire industry is how to deal with that.

FWIW, the challenge for HD and all the other manufacturers is not just how to attract the buyers of other brands. The challenge is to attract buyers, period. As GWB famously said, "Make the pie higher!"

Another paranoid Harley defender

How was anything in Serazin's post "paranoid"? Is HD bashing the only acceptable response? HD's problems are a leading indicator for all of us.

 

[1RUN]

How was anything in Serazin's post "paranoid"? Is HD bashing the only acceptable response? HD's problems are a leading indicator for all of us.

Because nothing in my original post and the attached article had anything to do with quality issues. It had to do with needing to appeal to a younger consumer, and the challenges there in :|

 

[flying_hun]

Because nothing in my original post and the attached article had anything to do with quality issues. It had to do with needing to appeal to a younger consumer, and the challenges there in :|

Is it possible he was responding to another poster? See the post below.

Daymn! Thats an expensive boat anchor. Lets see, $20,000 for a heavy, under powered, piece of crap that falls apart all the time vs. a $10,000 sportbike that all I have to do is change the oil.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you I guess.

My point exactly: Harley's blessing, AND harley's curse, is they CAN NOT deviate from the air-cooled, v-twin, ill-handling cruiser template. Within that template, there is no substitute. But outside it, it just Does Not Sell.

This is a key marketing and engineering challenge for HD. The side mounted air cleaner, air cooled engine and something that looks like drag pipes mean that any bike that is legal is also slow.

 

[LongGoneJohn]

Good posts above.

You know I was thinking... I wasn't a Harley guy and therefor I was "outside it," yet I still bought one. You know what made me do that? I mean I rode one and I liked it, but I still wouldn't buy most of their bikes...

Then, they came out with the 2010 Street Glide. So people are asking what can Harley do to attract younger audiences? I really do think the new Street Glides *attract* younger audiences. They're lower, cleaner, have less stuff stuck on them, wider rear tires, etc. All these things appeal to the younger crowd who wants less lights and whistles and tassels and a cleaner look. I know it did me, and I know most of my friends who don't like Harley's see mine and think it's extremely nice.

So in short, I think they *are* doing something to attract younger people... dunno why I didn't think of that earlier.

 

[dtrides]

I was going to say more, but then thought better of it. You can thank me later...

 

[bluesjr]

A friend just got back from a 5K mile trip on a Heritage Softail. Nice looking bike. This is probably my favorite style of harley, and one that the Japanese have been very busy copying. I would very much enjoy riding around on one of these. At least I think I would. Never actually ridden a harley.

At any rate, he had zeros issues with his bike and it handled rain, wind, heat, cold, 13-hour days, combination of twisty hilly backroads and hwy, averaging 49mpg (from a 1600cc tour-loaded bike!). Not bad at all.

 

[72SBC]

That's not what killed the V-Rod sales.

People just don't like V-Rod. I'm no genius, but I'm sure a lot of other potential V-Rod owners felt the same when they rode one.

I never liked the v-rod line up. I thought they where ugly and weird. No one in my faimly likes them( all Harley riders) I never even considered one. I hopped up the sporty a lil and it was quick for a Harley. I could easily beat a 600cc bike stop light to stop light. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't pull on a v-rod. They are known for being fast (for a Harley) it started to make me kinda like them a lil for being the quickest Harley.

I saw Night Rod in the dealer and thought wow thats a pretty sharp looking bike, and started to look at them a lil differant. One day I finaly test rode one. It was a 09 that had the 1250cc engine, slipper clucth, ABS, ect ect.

Im used to Harley clucky gear box, and brakes, I COULD NOT believe the bike I was riding was a Harley. The gear box was like butter. The clucth pull was easy, the brakes stoped on a dime. The power I clouldn't believe was making this 700lbs bike move this fast. I was hooked from the first ride.

I own that bike now. The test ride changed my view on the v-rod line up. I acutally think the NRS is the best looking Harley on the lot.

It is easily my fav bike I've owned.



.

 

[codger]

make them ninja bikes ilegal they are too fast anyway cops cant even catch them. mandate that if you want to ride you ride american and the Government nationalizes HD.

 

[LongGoneJohn]

It is easily my fav bike I've owned.



.

Glad you enjoy it man. Keep it upright and have fun!

 

[VicTim]

I'm sure Harley will be building and selling cruisers for a long time. Theres just too many loyal to the Harley brand not too. That said I don't think they can ever expand into other markets. It just won't fit their image. Would you buy a Harley dual sport, a Harley sport bike or even a Harley scooter? I didn't think so.

By the way I think a lot of Harley owners and non bikers alike only think in terms of Harley when it comes to motorcyles. Anthing els is just un American.

 

[LongGoneJohn]

^^^^^^ And a lot of people just think that they're the best made motorcycle they've ever owned.

 

[VicTim]

^^^^^^ And a lot of people just think that they're the best made motorcycle they've ever owned.

This may be true but some folks would like to arrest you our spit in your coffee for choosing a Japanese bike. Now is that America?

 

[LongGoneJohn]

This may be true but some folks would like to arrest you our spit in your coffee for choosing a Japanese bike. Now is that America?

I've legitimately never met a Harley rider like that. The riders I've met all like motorcycles, regardless. Yes, the majority of them prefer a Harley -- that's why they bought one -- and they may say stuff like "I don't see how people can sit on them crotch rockets" etc. etc., but I've never seen direct hostility like you mention. Not here in California anyway.

It happens I'm sure, just like the metric cruiser/sportbike guys who make snide ass comments about my bike whenever I go places, but it's not all that common.

 

[flying_hun]

Pulling the thread somewhat back on topic, I found an NHTSA publication from 2003 showing some demographic trends in motorcycling. NHTSA treads If I find anything more current, I'll post it up.

One of the most interesting statistics was how the percentage of motorcycle owners are over 40 has increased over time, from 15.1% in 1980 to 43.7% in 1998.

Yeah, that's pretty old data. If that trend continued - and I think it did - the aging of motorcyclists following a big demographic baby-boom bubble that came in during the 70's represents a threat to all motorcycle makers.

What does this mean for HD? Is it different for other makers? If so, how and why is it different? What can be learned?

FWIW, I am one of those geezers (55) who are still riding - though not on an HD in my case. I was riding in 1980 and I'm still riding now. Seems like there are a lot more of us oldies around now, but that might be selective perception on my part.

 

[orbframe]

I also found a graph