Knee dragging is NOT sexy.....

[Moussa]

Real men drag scrotum.

 

[staRang]

Yeah Dono, who taught you that shit?!?

 

[donoman]

Tell you the truth, the first person I saw hang off and almost drag a knee up on Skyline was MikeyJudkins himself. He might not remember it as I was a weee little newbie. I almost shat in my pants when I realized how fast I was going behind him.

 

[winders]

Real men drag scrotum.

No, real OLD men drag scrotum.....

Scott

 

[weasel]

*<swimming by the hook, choosing not to bite>*

me too

 

[zookrider98]

man i wish i could drag knee .on the street or track .....dont care ..just wonder what its like .........

If you don't drag knee, then why are both your pucks scratched? have you been on your knee's again ?

 

[weasel]

 

[staRang]

I think he lent his pucks to Billy Jenkins... Man, that guy is FAST!!

 

[V-StromGeezer]

I did a Wendy Mines ride a few weeks ago. B group. I hung, barely, with Wendy. Pace was BRISK. I was dragging the center stand and the right peg feeler regularly. Scrape on the right pipe below the frame, too. Not once did I see Wendy or any rider in front of her hang off. So at the Junction asked how come. No need to.

Yet a great many riders I've ridden with over the past several months in the Santa Cruz mountains hang off where it is clearly unnecessary. Claim is the bike is more upright and therefore more stable or better grip.

In many cases I have observed them upsetting the bike as they "get off" before or at the lean in point.

Reminds me of City Sports newspaper in my running days. San Francisco edition was full of articles about technique, races and the like. L.A. edition was full of "how to look great" articles. Ads reflected the same.

 

[Green Hornet]

Dragging your knee, "not sexy"??? Who gives a flip about what is perceived as sexy but a poser??

 

[Just1Fix]

Claim is the bike is more upright and therefore more stable or better grip.

In many cases I have observed them upsetting the bike as they "get off" before or at the lean in point.

I'm certainly not advocating dragging knee on the street, but isn't it true that by hanging off you keep the bike more upright, and therefore have more tire contact?

People that upset the bike as they get off just have poor technique.

 

[JeffKoch]

Yet a great many riders I've ridden with over the past several months in the Santa Cruz mountains hang off where it is clearly unnecessary. Claim is the bike is more upright and therefore more stable or better grip.

Depends how you like to ride, really, as well as how fast you ride. I hang off all the time when I ride through the twisties, just instinctively, though not as much as I would on a race track. Most of the time I don't "have" to for traction reasons, but it feels natural to me - in fact I really have to make a special effort to sit my butt in the seat and not hang off and lean into the turns, since it feels really strange to me. In your case, you might not have scraped metal so much if you had hung off the inside a bit.

 

[kneeSparX]

fuckin smartass!!

 

[Tripp]

I'm certainly not advocating dragging knee on the street, but isn't it true that by hanging off you keep the bike more upright, and therefore have more tire contact?

Well, here's my understanding. We lean our bikes into turns so they don't tip over to the outside of the turn. By doing so you move your center of gravity (CG) farther to the inside of the turn, and that keeps you from falling over to the outside.

But you can only lean the bike (to move the CG) so far before its hard parts start scraping and you end up lowsiding.

Enter hanging off. By moving your BODY farther to the inside of the turn, you don't need to lean the bike as far. This is really only important if you are going very fast (relative to the arc of the turn), so fast that you'd want to lean the bike so far over that it'd scrape and slide out if you didn't hang off.

Allowing the bike to stay more upright allows you to maintain higher cornering speeds. This is important in racing, obviously. It's only important on the street if you're going REALLY fast. But many riders like to try it cuz it's fun. Maybe that's cuz it feels great and maybe that's cuz it feels like your a racer.

Is it smart? We each decide for ourselves. (But if you slide out in a right hander, you may have company...)

My question is whether a high amount of lean (let's say 45-50 degrees) on a sport bike gives you less or more traction due to the contact patch (i.e., part of the tire that touches the ground) being smaller or bigger. I'm not sure. I know that any way you slice it, the faster you corner, the more you load up the tire with lateral G pressure, and that eventually if that force is so great it will overcome the traction of the tire and you'll slide. (And things like bumps, rocks, water, etc. will cause trouble much more quickly.)

 

[JeffKoch]

um, is 20 mph in first gear from a standstill riding too hard? or 40 on a nice clean 20mph turn that you can see though? it is possible if you know what you're doing, I've seen it done.

I've drug (dragged? drugged? habe gedruggen?) knee pucks on the street quite a few times, and it's pretty much always been a case of going way faster than I should've been going (I only do this very occasionally, like last summer when I put H2s on my 748 for the first time and loved 'em so much I couldn't control myself, and only on a few select turns). I don't think you'll drag knee pucks doing 40 in a 20, though - someone on another board worked out traction limits based on CalTrans speed limit guidelines, and figured you need to be doing something closer to triple the speed limit through a turn to get to knee-dragging angles, at least assuming you're not hanging off like a monkey. Dragging knees at 20 mph, well, that I gotta see.

I'll be going to my third track day monday, and I wish someone would help teach me how todrag my knee. does it hurt? is it scary? how do you do it? and I wanna learn how to do a pop-a-wheely, that looks cool.

But seriously, it's actually *really fun* to take a little XR to the Stockton supermoto track and play around, if you hang off properly (i.e. if you don't ride it like a supermoto bike) you'll find yourself dragging knee pucks all over the place. It also teaches you to be really, really smooth, since little trail bikes like my XR200 are very soft and bouncy and don't tolerate much abruptness. They're fun to slide around, too. Check it out, it's a blast!

 

[mokokaikala]

I wish someone would help teach me how todrag my knee. does it hurt? is it scary? how do you do it?

You crack me up Mort
You should watch the video I have, that'll help you learn

 

[V-StromGeezer]

... In your case, you might not have scraped metal so much if you had hung off the inside a bit.

I know.
I am not sure I would care to ride Mines any faster than I did.

Now where I would like to hang off is on Jamison Creek so I can keep up with Andy while coasting.

Or on Page Mill.

 

[V-StromGeezer]

You crack me up Mike
You should watch the video I have, that'll help you learn

Thought the same thing!

 

[900CR]

Well, here's my understanding. We lean our bikes into turns so they don't tip over to the outside of the turn. By doing so you move your center of gravity (CG) farther to the inside of the turn, and that keeps you from falling over to the outside.

But you can only lean the bike (to move the CG) so far before its hard parts start scraping and you end up lowsiding.

Enter hanging off. By moving your BODY farther to the inside of the turn, you don't need to lean the bike as far. This is really only important if you are going very fast (relative to the arc of the turn), so fast that you'd want to lean the bike so far over that it'd scrape and slide out if you didn't hang off.

Allowing the bike to stay more upright allows you to maintain higher cornering speeds. This is important in racing, obviously. It's only important on the street if you're going REALLY fast. But many riders like to try it cuz it's fun. Maybe that's cuz it feels great and maybe that's cuz it feels like your a racer.

Is it smart? We each decide for ourselves. (But if you slide out in a right hander, you may have company...)

My question is whether a high amount of lean (let's say 45-50 degrees) on a sport bike gives you less or more traction due to the contact patch (i.e., part of the tire that touches the ground) being smaller or bigger. I'm not sure. I know that any way you slice it, the faster you corner, the more you load up the tire with lateral G pressure, and that eventually if that force is so great it will overcome the traction of the tire and you'll slide. (And things like bumps, rocks, water, etc. will cause trouble much more quickly.)

Tripp:

You'll find after a few riding schools that you'll be initating the turn more with your body, using the motion that gets you into the "hang-off" position to steer the motorcycle and initiate the turn.

From what I've seen, it seems riders solely interested in scuffing a puck are rarely committed to this fluid motion, steering instead with their arms and then making adjustments during the actual corner trying to touch down. This radically upsets the bike... because they are not being conservative nor fluid, and are using a movement optimal for initating a turn during mid-corner when they should be using minor inputs to correct their trajectory/line.

As for the contact patch stuff, I'm not quite sure.. though I do know you wont be in any trouble until you're at roughly 55 degrees...

And that's pretty fast.

Remember, slides aren't bad if both ends are going at the same time...

 

[Tripp]

Yup, 900CR, I didn't get into the body steering element...good point! And at high speeds, where that gyroscope front wheel is harder to turn, having the body to help steer is much more important.

Good catch.