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MOTOGP 2012 Final Preseason IRTA test, Jerez. 3/23-3/25

Kurosaki said:
Spec engine in GP?


funny_jesus_6.gif
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Yeah, I know... :)
Sidewalk said:
Moto2 is not GP racing. Just ask all the greatest racers in the world to go race superstock, problem solved.

I hate Moto2.
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I understand, it's always been about prototypes. But I really think going to spec engines would help figure out who truly is the best rider, not just who has the best equipment.

But that's just me.
 
TrueFader said:
Anyone have input on why Spies did so well when he won? It was at Assen correct? Did he have better race pace from qualifying? Was the weather crappy? What held Stoner and Lorenzo back? What can Spies take from that race and use to gain more wins?
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The temperature on race day in Assen was something like 20c colder than it was the previous year, increasing the difficulty in warming up the tires and keeping heat in them. Which gave an advantage to the bigger guys, I say this with some certainty because the only time the heavier riders out-qualified the lighter riders the whole year was when they were at tracks that were significantly colder than normal, and in the case of Assen, the heaviest rider on each brand qualified highest, it was Sic, Spies and Abraham. The likely competitor for Spies that weekend was Sic, he was dominating practice and qualifying. Stoner, having messed up his neck in one of the many cold tire crashes that weekend, was more cautious during the race and he was pushed slightly wide due to Sic's crash.
 
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DaveT319 said:
Yeah, I know... :)


I understand, it's always been about prototypes. But I really think going to spec engines would help figure out who truly is the best rider, not just who has the best equipment.

But that's just me.
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That is the whole point of GP racing. The best bikes with the best riders supported by the best teams. GP racing isn't about the best rider, it is about the winning formula. And you want to destroy the formula because you don't find watching the greatest bikes ever built ridden by the best riders in the world to be exciting.
 
Sidewalk said:
Moto2 is not GP racing. Just ask all the greatest racers in the world to go race superstock, problem solved.

I hate Moto2.
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+1

Put a bunch of talented kids on Ninja 250s and you have great racing. Doesn't mean that it is GP racing.
 
Assen 2011

Position | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
Grid |58 |11 | 1 |27 |4 |25 |17 |5 |69 |14 |46 |7 |8 |18
1 |11 |4 |27 |35 |46 |5 |69 |7 |24 |14 |19 |8 |64 | 1
2 |11 |27 |4 |35 |46 |69 |5 |7 |24 |19 |8 |64 | 1 |58
3 |11 |27 |4 |35 |46 |69 |5 |7 |24 |19 |8 |64 | 1 |58
4 |11 |27 |4 |35 |46 |69 |5 |7 |24 |19 |8 |64 | 1 |58
5 |11 |27 |4 |46 |35 |5 |69 |7 |24 |19 |8 |64 | 1 |58
6 |11 |27 |4 |46 |35 |5 |69 |7 |24 |19 | 1 |8 |64 |58
7 |11 |27 |4 |46 |35 |5 |69 |7 |24 |19 | 1 |8 |64 |58
8 |11 |27 |4 |46 |35 |5 |69 |7 |24 |19 | 1 |8 |64 |58
9 |11 |27 |4 |46 |35 |5 |69 |7 |24 |19 | 1 |8 |64 |58
10 |11 |27 |4 |46 |35 |5 |69 |7 |24 | 1 |19 |8 |64 |58
11 |11 |27 |4 |46 |5 |69 |35 |7 |24 | 1 |19 |8 |64 |58
12 |11 |27 |4 |46 |5 |69 |7 |24 | 1 |19 |8 |64 |58 |35
13 |11 |27 |4 |46 |5 |69 |7 | 1 |24 |19 |8 |58 |64 |35
14 |11 |27 |4 |46 |5 |69 | 1 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
15 |11 |27 |4 |46 |5 |69 | 1 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
16 |11 |27 |4 |46 |5 |69 | 1 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
17 |11 |27 |4 |46 |5 |69 | 1 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
18 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 |5 | 1 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
19 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 |5 | 1 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
20 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 |5 | 1 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
21 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 |5 | 1 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
22 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 | 1 |5 |7 |24 |19 |58 |8 |64 |35
23 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 | 1 |5 |7 |24 |58 |19 |8 |64 |35
24 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 | 1 |5 |7 |24 |58 |19 |8 |64 |35
25 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 | 1 |5 |7 |24 |58 |19 |8 |64 |
26 |11 |27 |4 |46 |69 | 1 |5 |7 |58 |24 |19 | | |
 
Lorenzo

3 | 1'38.742 |
4 |1'37.665 |
5 |1'37.146 |
6 |1'37.475 |
7 |1'36.426 |
8 |1'36.129 |
9 |1'36.151 |
10 |1'36.216 |
11 |1'35.983 |
12 |1'35.928 |
13 |1'36.356 |
14 |1'37.261 |
15 |1'36.210 |
16 |1'36.185 |
17 |1'35.985 |
18 |1'35.813 |
19 |1'36.076 |
20 |1'36.12 |
21 |1'35.788 |
22 |1'35.720 |
23 |1'36.003 |
24 |1'36.003 |
25 |1'35.952 |
26 |1'35.641 |1'36.374

Spies
2 | 1'37.080 |
3 |1'36.389 |
4 |1'36.120 |
5 |1'36.149 |
6 |1'36.009 |
7 |1'35.966 |
8 |1'35.900 |
9 |1'35.717 |
10 |1'35.626 |
11 |1'35.601 |
12 |1'35.240 |
13 |1'35.527 |
14 |1'35.605 |
15 |1'35.679 |
16 |1'35.655 |
17 |1'35.695 |
18 |1'35.836 |
19 |1'35.967 |
20 |1'35.643 |
21 |1'36.076 |
22 |1'36.105 |
23 |1'36.405 |
24 |1'36.610 |
25 |1'36.533 |
26 |1'38.000 |1'36.045
 
kevin 714 said:
lolwut.jpg
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It took me a little longer than I expected to format the information correctly but I was putting the Assen question to bed.

Spies had the pace the Lorenzo didn't. He would have won that race anyway.
 
I get your point but keep in mind spies wasn't riding a crashed bike trying to get around two thirds of the grid
 
kevin 714 said:
I get your point but keep in mind spies wasn't riding a crashed bike trying to get around two thirds of the grid
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Spies qualified ahead of Lorenzo and set a faster lap than Lorenzo's fastest - which was a clear track lap - so I just don't think he could have done it. At best, they would have fought for the lead in which case, I still give it to Spies based on QP.
 
Sidewalk said:
That is the whole point of GP racing. The best bikes with the best riders supported by the best teams. GP racing isn't about the best rider, it is about the winning formula. And you want to destroy the formula because you don't find watching the greatest bikes ever built ridden by the best riders in the world to be exciting.
Click to expand...

I don't find the guys parading around the track single file with 5 seconds between them at the finish "exciting". Don't get me twisted: I think they are amazing pieces of machinery. True engineering marvels. But just that fact does not make the racing exciting. The event is exciting, but the racing is not, except for the first few laps where they are still bunched up. But by midway through, the positions are pretty close to set. Sure, there's a couple that dice throughout the race, and every so often the winner goes down to the wire, but nothing like what we see in Moto2, which has battles for the lead going right to the checkered flag. That's the only reason I would want to change the formula, because it would make for better racing. Would the machinery be as awesome? Of course not. But to me, racing is about the action and the riders, not about the machines.
 
Moto2 is garbage. Watch 250cc race from the 2000-2007 period. Moto2 is not only a castrated racing format, it also isn't nearly as good as the 250s were when there was still competition.
 
ecruz said:
I had a different take on why the weights are there.

Colin had complained that there was so a lot of vibration from the engine being felt on the controls. I think the weights are there to address this reason. The weights would damp out the vibration, and possibly change its frequency. They might be trying to change the amplitude and frequency of the vibration, so that this "noise" wouldn't distract Colin's feel on the bars.:nerd
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I didn't know about that one. So, maybe that is it. Thanks.
kevin 714 said:
I get your point but keep in mind spies wasn't riding a crashed bike trying to get around two thirds of the grid
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Agree. We have no idea what damage was done to the bike. And Spies had clear track.
DaveT319 said:
I don't find the guys parading around the track single file with 5 seconds between them at the finish "exciting". Don't get me twisted: I think they are amazing pieces of machinery. True engineering marvels. But just that fact does not make the racing exciting. The event is exciting, but the racing is not, except for the first few laps where they are still bunched up. ......
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This happens in racing, all the time. It is nice when the leaders are battling, but at the top of all kinds of racing, this goes on. Heck, I have witnessed flat-track, where virtually the whole field got lapped by the winner.

Edit: It doesn't bother me, because I appreciate the "whole package" of top-notch racing.
 
I'm not arguing that Moto2 is better than 250. I loved those 2-strokes, and am pissed that they are all gone. And the racing was always good in both 125 and 250. But there was less chance for one team to have a significant power advantage over their competition like there is in the top class.
 
kevin 714 said:
Lol dude I always though you loved moto2
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Never have. I wrote an article detailing failings of Moto2 using a whole bunch of numbers but, in the end, it was nerd core and I didn't submit it to MotoMatters/


DaveT319 said:
I'm not arguing that Moto2 is better than 250. I loved those 2-strokes, and am pissed that they are all gone. And the racing was always good in both 125 and 250. But there was less chance for one team to have a significant power advantage over their competition like there is in the top class.
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Wait, what? Did you watch MotoGP during that same period? It looks to me like Honda had the serious power advantage. They certainly had the best motor. The only reason there was anything interesting going on between 2000 and 2004 was because Honda had the best riders competing against each other. If Rossi hadn't switched to Yamaha and Furusawa got the funding he needed, the 990 era would have been entirely a Honda show.
 
I'm not pissed about two strokes going away. I don't like them being forced out, I prefer the engine builders to decide what is better. What I do hate is spec anything in GP racing isn't. I am okay with a few limits here and there for safety and classification purposes (displacement as an example), but nothing meant to even out the field. You can go watch SBK if you want formula rules to even things out, or NASCAR. Hell, if you want some really good racing, go to an M1GP event and watch the 50 Stock races, best battles you will ever see, but no one will argue it is GP. Funny enough, even M1GP GP classes are basically just a field of custom built bikes.
 
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