MotoGP Off-Season Thread

[stangmx13]

once again, someone outside of Ducati trying to do a napkin-calculation and boil all of Ducati's problems down to 1 number/issue. too bad i cant read any of that.

interesting to see that Duc is running a shorter swingarm than the other two. im not entirely surprised since all their SBKs went that way as well (IIRC). of course, Nicky/Rossi/JB/Prez have all said that they've never been at the limit of their adjustments, so throwing on a longer one wont do shit.

 

[squidworth]

i think there needs to be a boxing ring, those ridiculous sumo wrestling costumes, and jo / sidwazzzzzzzzzzz to duke it out like the flustered wives of hotlanta.

 

[clutchslip]

Zemke (cool dude btw) posted 1:24's IN 2007 . You think they are on the same level of RD? Yates on the jordan bike which was not factory.

MotoGP racing is multi tier. FACTORY> SAT> CRT

Yeah, Jake is a nice guy. Nice rider, too. He never scared me when he would pass at >50mph delta.

We got what we got with CRT. I hated the whole CRT concept from the beginning. Separate rules are just wrong. BUT, maybe, just maybe, this will lead to something better, like the HRC bikes. And there sure was a lot of complaining about the small grid before the CRT class.

Happy Valentines Day, dudes. Kiss and make-up. Or not.

Has Ducati sucked it up and hired Stoner to test parts yet?

That would be good. They didn't listen to him after he won a championship.

Stoner: "This sucks. That stinks. Chatter, chatter, chatter."
Ducati: "But, Casey, you are .5 seconds off the track record. And you only crashed twice. No problem, si?
Stoner: "Suck on a cannoli, I am going fishing".

 

[stangmx13]

sidewazz, your dislike of CRT and a 'tiered' GP class is bordering on House-midget-theory status, except your points/arguments/posts arent nearly as concise or supportive of your argument.

personally, i could care less if SBKs were just as fast back in 2007. but rly, u shouldnt post an example without looking at the whole story (why JO is saying disingenuous comparison). Mladin went 1:24.27 @ Laguna that year btw on a bike who's only detriment to todays CRTs is electronics. Mladin had more fuel, easier to use tires, much much much more chassis development, as many engines as he wanted, did only 28 laps compared to 32, and had Yosh behind the whole operation. RdP still went faster by 6 tenths and Aleix by 7. race times were 39:33.4 for Spies (winner, fastest an AMA SBK ever went around Laguna) in '08 and 39:28.5 @ lap 28 for Aleix. is any of that getting smoked in racing??

why not pick Brno and compare CRT to WSBK? Fastest times were RdP @ 1:58.79 during the race & Haga @ 1:59.60 in Superpole. crap, 9 tenths... getting smoked. the WSBK Superpole record was under RdP's CRT lap record by 2008, but the SBK race lap record is still stuck @ 1:59.29.

see what i did there, i picked a track where i know the CRTs did well at to support my point. of course, if u look at Phillip Island, the 2007 WSBK lap record is 1:31.83 compared to Aleix's 1:32.30. if ud eventually like to argue the validity of your point, go for it. but all of those ^^ comparisons arent completely valid; the simple fact that i can find 1 track where CRTs smoke SBKs w/ more reliable engines, less fuel, harder tires, etc etc throws out the whole point rly.

CRT is a means to an end, a transitional period for GP, and rly the racing is closer than when Ago lapped 2nd place regularly. for those reasons alone, i see no point in getting worked up about bikes/racing that we hardly ever c on TV. it was awesome when Aleix led those few laps at Valencia though

 

[Zerox]

CRT is a means to an end, a transitional period for GP, and rly the racing is closer than when Ago lapped 2nd place regularly.

When Ago was lapping everyone, after the real bikes finished 1-2-3, did they invite whatever shitpile bike that finished 11th to be proudly displayed in Parc fermé?

 

[Spec-ECU]

CRT wasn't implemented to smoke anyone or anything; it was Dorna's way to fill the grid while the MSMA was making it hard to do the same. If Honda and Yamaha didn't come up with their respective alternatives (production racer and leased engines respectively) to expensive leasing of their satellite bikes, the whole GP grid was going to be 100% CRT as intended by Dorna.

Like previously pointed out, CRT was just a means to an end. Therefore arguing about how slow they are is really irrelevant to their purpose.

 

[stangmx13]

When Ago was lapping everyone, after the real bikes finished 1-2-3, did they invite whatever shitpile bike that finished 11th to be proudly displayed in Parc fermé?

. im sure they didnt. ya, i think that part is stupid; hopefully it helps retain sponsors and goes away in 2014.

i wonder if there was any extra prize $$ for top CRT. i sure hope not.

 

[stangmx13]

GP will be tits when the following happens:
- Dorna stops subsidizing factory budgets
- factories pull out their factory teams
- factories continue to produce either engines or bikes, a la Moto3
- everyone is running Dorna electronics w/ more fuel
- the class is a battle between teams & chassis makers, a la F1

 

[JO EBRMC]

It's the only track they both race at smart guy.

No, it isn't.

Your ducati comparison is lame because that bike has not only won races with different riders but a championship. last year it finished on the box some 4 or 5 times with 2 second place finishes. The bike itself can keep up and even be faster than the rest out there once there problems are figured out.

You just did a really, really good job of making my points for me.

The Ducati is lapping at the same pace as the CRTs - with better riders. If they can lap at the same pace, how is one superior? How are the CRTs somehow not legitimate if they are keeping up with a bike that you believe is capable of getting on the box?

A crt bike simply doesn't stand a chance in Hell to win or finish on the box unless everyone crashes out.

Do you really think a Crt bike will finish on the box as long as factory and sat bikes are out there?

Privateers have, with extremely rare exception, never had a shot of getting on the podium. Why is the important?

Do you really believe MOTOGP isn't tier racing?

Can you honestly say the guy on a sat or crt has the same chance at winning as the factory guys.

No, they don't. Factories always have and always will win in MotoGP.

We got what we got with CRT. I hated the whole CRT concept from the beginning. Separate rules are just wrong. BUT, maybe, just maybe, this will lead to something better, like the HRC bikes. And there sure was a lot of complaining about the small grid before the CRT class.

The separate rules really aren't that significant. The only real difference is the fuel allowance and motor count. Those are important but are entirely cost-related - allowing smaller budgets to get on the grid. There are no technical differences in the rules.

GP will be tits when the following happens:
- Dorna stops subsidizing factory budgets
- factories pull out their factory teams
- factories continue to produce either engines or bikes, a la Moto3
- everyone is running Dorna electronics w/ more fuel
- the class is a battle between teams & chassis makers, a la F1

I mostly agree (as usual) though I think the Moto3 is the exact model MotoGP needs to move toward. Moto3 makes the competition between the teams important but also allows the factories to play a role that has value to them while not forcing out the chassis builders.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

GP will be tits when the following happens:

When the old guy blowing on his soup is replaced with a young person with sport in
their blood... Carmelo knows more about Assisted Living Homes than he does Gp racing...

 

[number_6]

nobody knows what you are talking about here

 

[Kurosaki]

nobody cares what you are talking about here

fixed

 

[Busy Little Shop]

nobody knows what you are talking about here

I saying that the guy can only make love on his back because he can only fook up!!!

 

[stangmx13]

I mostly agree (as usual) though I think the Moto3 is the exact model MotoGP needs to move toward. Moto3 makes the competition between the teams important but also allows the factories to play a role that has value to them while not forcing out the chassis builders.

the only things im skeptical about, my only gripes, for Moto3 are the screwed up pricing rules and the diff levels of factory support. the pricing can be fixed w/ simple rule changes and telling the factories to stop gouging. the diff levels of factory support are a bit harder to fix.

in Moto3, it working just fine (for now). hardware is mostly equal except engines, and KTM factory is only 1-2HP up on their production bikes. Honda is slightly lagging, but thats their fault, esp since KTM didnt update their engine for this year. yet, in GP there will never be parity w/ engines until an F1-style system is adopted. annual frozen development will help, but that wont stop HRC from selling production motors that are 20HP down (made up #) from the factory spec.

im not sure what the solution is. engine homologation for purchase, everyone leases the same spec, everyone purchases the same spec... iono. the first is my pick but i may change my mind later as they all have interesting implications. with homologation, the factories still get annual development for fuel economy increases, chassis dev, and electronics dev... so theyll stick around.

im not sure any but the last option are financially possible now, but none can be much worse than Carmelo subsidizing leased equipment. at least with homologated factory spec, each team only needs 5.

who knows, maybe im being pessimistic and we'll get a proddy bike on the box in their first year. thatd be sick!!

 

[JO EBRMC]

I think those concerns are fair. Another option, of course, is the spec ECU. Since any production racer motor will like have peak power sufficient to do the job, the work of making more of it usable will fall to the electronics.

I've never been fond of a spec ECU but it seriously cuts the value of pouring money into engine development. It sort of feels like leveling the playing field with a hammer rather than a scalpel.

Another alternative outright homologation might be just extending the engine-sealing rules: manufacturers must submit all motors, including those for privateers, at the start of the season and those motors are distributed at random. That's not much different but it avoids the creation of even more complex rules.

 

[TrueFader]

Need to bring back multiple tire suppliers.

 

[sidewazzz]

sidewazz, your dislike of CRT and a 'tiered' GP class is bordering on House-midget-theory status, except your points/arguments/posts arent nearly as concise or supportive of your argument.

personally, i could care less if SBKs were just as fast back in 2007. but rly, u shouldnt post an example without looking at the whole story (why JO is saying disingenuous comparison). Mladin went 1:24.27 @ Laguna that year btw on a bike who's only detriment to todays CRTs is electronics. Mladin had more fuel, easier to use tires, much much much more chassis development, as many engines as he wanted, did only 28 laps compared to 32, and had Yosh behind the whole operation. RdP still went faster by 6 tenths and Aleix by 7. race times were 39:33.4 for Spies (winner, fastest an AMA SBK ever went around Laguna) in '08 and 39:28.5 @ lap 28 for Aleix. is any of that getting smoked in racing??

why not pick Brno and compare CRT to WSBK? Fastest times were RdP @ 1:58.79 during the race & Haga @ 1:59.60 in Superpole. crap, 9 tenths... getting smoked. the WSBK Superpole record was under RdP's CRT lap record by 2008, but the SBK race lap record is still stuck @ 1:59.29.

see what i did there, i picked a track where i know the CRTs did well at to support my point. of course, if u look at Phillip Island, the 2007 WSBK lap record is 1:31.83 compared to Aleix's 1:32.30. if ud eventually like to argue the validity of your point, go for it. but all of those ^^ comparisons arent completely valid; the simple fact that i can find 1 track where CRTs smoke SBKs w/ more reliable engines, less fuel, harder tires, etc etc throws out the whole point rly.

CRT is a means to an end, a transitional period for GP, and rly the racing is closer than when Ago lapped 2nd place regularly. for those reasons alone, i see no point in getting worked up about bikes/racing that we hardly ever c on TV. it was awesome when Aleix led those few laps at Valencia though

Border line House? WTF. I suppose anyone with a different option then most should just STFU? Get real. House would just start in with shit with nobody even addressing him. Your boy JO seems to consistently quote me .

BTW I wasn't talking about WSBK I was talking about AMA Superbike. Because they race at the same track in the same weekend, same exact condition!. not in two different months. You can toss a lot of factors into the "lap times" but bottom line is CRT is like having a superbike on course with GP bikes. TO race fans like myself that just doesn't fly.

Also I was one of the 1st people to say CRT was really a neg tool for Dorna to get Factory's to do something. I have very little belief that Dorna will turn this into a all CRT field. I said one simple thing "Superbikes were doing CRT times back in 2008" and you guys get your panties in a wad.

 

[Zerox]

I said one simple thing "Superbikes were doing CRT times back in 2008" and you guys get your panties in a wad.

CRT's are like packing peanuts, just there to take up space.

 

[Kurosaki]

Border line House? WTF. I suppose anyone with a different option then most should just STFU? Get real. House would just start in with shit with nobody even addressing him. Your boy JO seems to consistently quote me .

Right, like you don't do the same to him.

 

[poderoso]

Terrific picture from 2007 of Marc Marquez being introduced to his idol, Valentino Rossi, during the Cataluyna GP.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pecinosolomoto/status/303203646064164865/photo/1

We can all relate to the amazement on Marquez's face; if you ever got to meet an idol when you were a boy, it is a unique thrill. Imagine what it must be like now for Marquez to know he may be trading paint with Rossi this year (maybe on his way past him, no less).

I grew up in New England in the 1970s. I met my idol Bobby Orr one morning at the rink we practiced at, when Orr made a surprise visit. A father of one of my teammates happened to have his camera, and gave me a photo of Bobby Orr, gloved hand on my shoulder, as I looked up at him. It was that same look on my face.