MotoGP Off-Season Thread

[Drunkmonkey]

another stupid question. which maybe just me trying to convey this question.

How do motogp teams/constructors differ from how F1 Teams/Constructors operate?

I know in F1 Factory teams can sell/supply engines / chassis to other Teams, ie like Mercedes and lotus, etc, etc.

It seems like to me CRT teams are just supplying everything themselves correct?

And Factory Teams don't share / sell anything.

I would think we would get a semi level playing field if honda/yahama/ducati, etc, supply engines / chassis to non factory teams. and have a lower cost for non factory teams .

or do they do that already. lol sorry its slow workday and cant think straight.

 

[stangmx13]

another stupid question. which maybe just me trying to convey this question.

How do motogp teams/constructors differ from how F1 Teams/Constructors operate?

I know in F1 Factory teams can sell/supply engines / chassis to other Teams, ie like Mercedes and lotus, etc, etc.

It seems like to me CRT teams are just supplying everything themselves correct?

And Factory Teams don't share / sell anything.

I would think we would get a semi level playing field if honda/yahama/ducati, etc, supply engines / chassis to non factory teams. and have a lower cost for non factory teams .

or do they do that already. lol sorry its slow workday and cant think straight.

there is no link between F1 "factory" teams and any other team running similar equipment. yes, Mercedes and McLaren run the same engines, but they were provided by Mercedes the car manufacturer not Mercedes the F1 team. same goes w/ anyone running a Ferrari engine. technically, teams are NOT allowed to work together. for example, even though Toro Rosso is RedBull's little sister, she cant get design ideas from Red Bull outside of looking at their car in the paddock (now that they are an independent constructor).

from all that, it should be slightly obvious that F1 is made up of Constructors that are independent of automotive factories. RedBull is the best example, a team owned by a billionaire that builds their own cars made to use engine and gearbox supplied by Renault. really, theres no factory involvement in there, RedBull produces everything. so... what does this parallel in GP??? CRT of course.

next year, GP is moving even closer to this design. Honda will be producing prototype bikes FOR SALE and Yamaha will be SELLING engines. so, the teams that run Yamaha engines will be exactly like an F1 team getting their engine/gearbox from Ferrari and building a car around it. anyone buying a Honda prototype will actually own it, so they can do whatever they want with it, unlike the satellite teams that currently do everything HRC tells them to.

 

[Drunkmonkey]

Thanks Stangmx13! i only started watching motogp recently (3 years)

hopefully crts then can make a run at the championships like redbull / mclaren. then just factory teams.

 

[Parx400]

anyone buying a Honda prototype will actually own it, so they can do whatever they want with it, unlike the satellite teams that currently do everything HRC tells them to.

Like run forks and brakes no one else is using.

 

[number_6]

He just misses his hat.

 

[Spec-ECU]

next year, GP is moving even closer to this design. Honda will be producing prototype bikes FOR SALE and Yamaha will be SELLING engines.

Honda will sell production racebikes, but I believe Yamaha's plan is to lease engines.

 

[stangmx13]

Like run forks and brakes no one else is using.

ive often wondered what Gresini is getting out of the deal. surely, HRC/Showa must be cutting them a deal on equipment or something to "twist their arm" into running Showa suspension and Nissin brakes.

Honda will sell production racebikes, but I believe Yamaha's plan is to lease engines.

ahh yes, u r correct. i forgot about that one since i completely detest leasing equipment in the GP paddock. hopefully Carmelo doesnt let this one fly.

 

[Spec-ECU]

ive often wondered what Gresini is getting out of the deal. surely, HRC/Showa must be cutting them a deal on equipment or something to "twist their arm" into running Showa suspension and Nissan brakes.

Nissin. For fuck's sake, bro!

About Yamaha leasing engines, I wonder how smart that would be to go up against Honda building a whole bike to sell. As Yamaha, you must really believe it so hard that you've got the best engine in the paddock to pull off leasing them, something which isn't quite dogma at the moment.

 

[Drunkmonkey]

whats the benefit for Yamaha for leasing engines? get the engine back if its a good one?

 

[Spec-ECU]

whats the benefit for Yamaha for leasing engines? get the engine back if its a good one?

Well, as Honda is finding out, it's not that easy to build a production racer at under 1M euros, which is the price Dorna is mandating. So perhaps Yamaha is looking at leased engines as a way to circumvent that logistical dilemna; build a racer (and maybe chassis-friendly) engine to lease without necessarily being constrained by the price cap imposed by Dorna.

The thing I find peculiar about that plan though, is how they're going to cater to the same grid who has an option to buy and own a whole bike (with an engine!) from HRC. Lease just the engines for a season, or own a whole production racebike for life?

Abraham and his squad, Cardion AB, defected from leasing satellite Ducati's this year to an Aprilia CRT for that same reason - it didn't make sense to them to spend boatloads of money a season on a bike that wasn't theirs to own in the end.

 

[stangmx13]

Nissin. For fuck's sake, bro!

About Yamaha leasing engines, I wonder how smart that would be to go up against Honda building a whole bike to sell. As Yamaha, you must really believe it so hard that you've got the best engine in the paddock to pull off leasing them, something which isn't quite dogma at the moment.

ya ya Nissin. apperentely i kant tipe twoday.

IMO, if Yamaha leases engines and Honda sells complete motos, the Yamaha engine will be better than the Honda one. Yamaha will throw in pneumatic valves and the associated crazy lift profile cams just to one-up Honda.

i vote that anyone running a Yamaha leased engine gets 5 for the year, not 12, even if they are running Dorna-spec electronics. until Yamaha starts selling equipment outright, they dont need to be patronized.

anyone rem if the 1M figure is for EVERYTHING necessary to run the bike for the year minus crash damage?? so all wear items, all needed engines, etc etc? id hate to see any of the bullshit going on in Moto3 where the initial bike is "cheap" but individual spares are outrageous.

 

[cencalballer]

ive often wondered what Gresini is getting out of the deal. surely, HRC/Showa must be cutting them a deal on equipment or something to "twist their arm" into running Showa suspension and Nissin brakes.



ahh yes, u r correct. i forgot about that one since i completely detest leasing equipment in the GP paddock. hopefully Carmelo doesnt let this one fly.

I think they are getting development work done. Honda owns or has a large stake in Showa I believe and I can guarantee they don't like watching Ohlins win everything.

And yes the leasing is annoying. They are headed in teh right direction but it will take time.

 

[JO EBRMC]

In racing 2.9 is getting smoked, 1.9 is getting smoked!

Not sure why people are so excited when superbikes were doing crt times in 2008.

Superbikes weren't setting those times with the riders on MotoGP privateer bikes. How close were the times for the WSBK riders who regularly finished outside of the top ten?

The comparison is intentionally disingenuous.

I suppose you are right but I don't see MOTOGP ever becoming healthier as long as you have a multi tier race. And i really believe we will have a false indecation as long as rossi is still racing.

There aren't multiple tiers. Privateers are faster than factory bikes.

Well, as Honda is finding out, it's not that easy to build a production racer at under 1M euros, which is the price Dorna is mandating. So perhaps Yamaha is looking at leased engines as a way to circumvent that logistical dilemna; build a racer (and maybe chassis-friendly) engine to lease without necessarily being constrained by the price cap imposed by Dorna.

The thing I find peculiar about that plan though, is how they're going to cater to the same grid who has an option to buy and own a whole bike (with an engine!) from HRC. Lease just the engines for a season, or own a whole production racebike for life?

Abraham and his squad, Cardion AB, defected from leasing satellite Ducati's this year to an Aprilia CRT for that same reason - it didn't make sense to them to spend boatloads of money a season on a bike that wasn't theirs to own in the end.

I have been saying this since 2006: leasing is the cancer that is killing MotoGP. In all forms, it threatens the sport.

 

[number_6]

via GPOne & asphaltandrubber

 

[sidewazzz]

Superbikes weren't setting those times with the riders on MotoGP privateer bikes. How close were the times for the WSBK riders who regularly finished outside of the top ten?

The comparison is intentionally disingenuous.




There aren't multiple tiers. Privateers are faster than factory bikes.




I have been saying this since 2006: leasing is the cancer that is killing MotoGP. In all forms, it threatens the sport.

Randy seems like a good guy to pick.

LAGUNA

14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Power Electronics Aspar ART 1'23.640 2012

Matt D Lynn MV Agusta ·Fast by Ferracci MV Agusta F4-1000R 1:26.309 in 2007!!!

Matt fucking Lynn a top 10 guy isn't even on the same level as RD on a AGUSTA for that matter!

YATES & Zemke (cool dude btw) posted 1:24's IN 2007 . You think they are on the same level of RD? Yates on the jordan bike which was not factory.

MotoGP racing is multi tier. FACTORY> SAT> CRT

 

[JO EBRMC]

Randy seems like a good guy to pick.

LAGUNA

14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Power Electronics Aspar ART 1'23.640 2012

Matt D Lynn MV Agusta ·Fast by Ferracci MV Agusta F4-1000R 1:26.309 in 2007!!!

Matt fucking Lynn a top 10 guy isn't even on the same level as RD on a AGUSTA for that matter!

YATES & Zemke (cool dude btw) posted 1:24's IN 2007 . You think they are on the same level of RD? Yates on the jordan bike which was not factory.

Wait, your argument is that being over 2.5 seconds off is somehow significant? Wasn't it you that made some point about 1.9 seconds?

Do you even think about what you post?

You also realize that lap times at Laguna are so small that a couple of seconds is huge so, again, I have to believe that you are either just intentionally being disingenuous or are just so mad you aren't thinking through your arguments.

MotoGP racing is multi tier. FACTORY> SAT> CRT

Hmmm...looks to me like there is a factory that is on the same pace as the privateers - with better riders. Not really seeing a separation there. perhaps you can explain how being off by less than half a second from the top bike on a factory team puts you in a different class. Looks to me like they are right there in the mix.

You are going to have to at least think through your arguments before you get so pissy about them.

It's fine if you don't like privateer bikes but at least admit that your dislike is irrational. when you try to base it on numbers, you end up contradicting yourself and looking silly.

 

[JO EBRMC]

i vote that anyone running a Yamaha leased engine gets 5 for the year, not 12, even if they are running Dorna-spec electronics. until Yamaha starts selling equipment outright, they dont need to be patronized.

Agreed.

 

[Zerox]

Has Ducati sucked it up and hired Stoner to test parts yet?

 

[Parx400]

The Showa thing makes scenes since Honda Owns them and use to run those forks on their Factory team. I'm sure they would love to use their own company again if they could match the performance of ohlins.

 

[sidewazzz]

Wait, your argument is that being over 2.5 seconds off is somehow significant? Wasn't it you that made some point about 1.9 seconds?

Do you even think about what you post?

You also realize that lap times at Laguna are so small that a couple of seconds is huge so, again, I have to believe that you are either just intentionally being disingenuous or are just so mad you aren't thinking through your arguments.



Hmmm...looks to me like there is a factory that is on the same pace as the privateers - with better riders. Not really seeing a separation there. perhaps you can explain how being off by less than half a second from the top bike on a factory team puts you in a different class. Looks to me like they are right there in the mix.

You are going to have to at least think through your arguments before you get so pissy about them.

It's fine if you don't like privateer bikes but at least admit that your dislike is irrational. when you try to base it on numbers, you end up contradicting yourself and looking silly.

It's the only track they both race at smart guy. The article that was linked talked about Pedro jumping on a crt it would drop the times down by half a second which is still 2.4 slower aka getting smoked in the premier class. I compared a full second to still getting smoked just to show how far off the bikes really are.

Track size has nothing to do with how slow these crt bikes are. A bike from 5 years ago same size motor and probably a bit heavier was running the same time as your crt. A top ten guy in the ama (fastest club racer) was only 4-5 seconds off a crt lap times 5 years ago on a not so good bike 5 years ago.

Your ducati comparison is lame because that bike has not only won races with different riders but a championship. last year it finished on the box some 4 or 5 times with 2 second place finishes. The bike itself can keep up and even be faster than the rest out there once there problems are figured out.

A crt bike simply doesn't stand a chance in Hell to win or finish on the box unless everyone crashes out.

Do you really think a Crt bike will finish on the box as long as factory and sat bikes are out there?

Do you really believe MOTOGP isn't tier racing?

Can you honestly say the guy on a sat or crt has the same chance at winning as the factory guys.