MotoGP question

[Ducky_Fresh]

Lighter
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Better Tires

 

[stangmx13]

Lighter
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Better Tires

i had been giving this one a bit of thought. id assume that the 1000cc WSBK I4s are wider than their 800cc I4 MotoGP counterparts (really depends on how oversquare the GP bike is)... we could literally just compare Yamaha to Yamaha. but this def doesnt apply to the entire field. I'm sure simply bringing this up w/ produce a response form BLS, but it seems that the V4 Aprilia and the V2 Ducati could be narrower than the Yamaha MotoGP bike. hell, the V2 Duc could be the narrowest bike throughout both paddocks.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Gp racing have always inspired the motorcycle and tire engineers to push the
envelope of what is capable in a single track machine... so if the state of the art
continues look for MotoGp lean angles in your future...

Just for fun technically compare what you are riding to all the Gp machines since
1948 and at some point in time your bike would have been a contender...

 

[shoelace]

everyone pretty much answered in complicated and uncomplicated ways, but if i can just be really simple here, i mean, REALLY SIMPLE,

it's the fucking tires.

 

[JO EBRMC]

everyone pretty much answered in complicated and uncomplicated ways, but if i can just be really simple here, i mean, REALLY SIMPLE,

it's the fucking tires.

Yes, they spend tens of millions on these bikes for no reason whatsoever.

 

[kevin 714]

If it was just the tires Rossi would be all good lol

 

[afm199]

Let's try this. First the tires are amazing. Second, they don't even work until they are HOT. So HOT that some riders can not get them hot. In order to get them hot you need to BRAKE HARD. That's why you see the front guys and midpackers on the front wheel with the rear in the air in most corners. That is new MotoGP style. Hard braking and trail braking gets the tires hot and they work really well. The bikes do NOT handle well, they are hard to turn. Spies says they turn like a truck.

Short version. Great tires, great riders, great brakes. Must get tires HOT. This requires big balls braking skills. IIRC leg out braking and Bridgestones are synonymous. Nobody used leg out braking before Stones. So basically the best riders in the world can get the tires hot enough to work well.

 

[Kurosaki]

Let's try this. First the tires are amazing. Second, they don't even work until they are HOT. So HOT that some riders can not get them hot. In order to get them hot you need to BRAKE HARD. That's why you see the front guys and midpackers on the front wheel with the rear in the air in most corners. That is new MotoGP style. Hard braking and trail braking gets the tires hot and they work really well. The bikes do NOT handle well, they are hard to turn. Spies says they turn like a truck.

Short version. Great tires, great riders, great brakes. Must get tires HOT. This requires big balls braking skills. IIRC leg out braking and Bridgestones are synonymous. Nobody used leg out braking before Stones. So basically the best riders in the world can get the tires hot enough to work well.

First time I've heard that one.

 

[JO EBRMC]

Let's try this. First the tires are amazing. Second, they don't even work until they are HOT. So HOT that some riders can not get them hot. In order to get them hot you need to BRAKE HARD. That's why you see the front guys and midpackers on the front wheel with the rear in the air in most corners. That is new MotoGP style. Hard braking and trail braking gets the tires hot and they work really well. The bikes do NOT handle well, they are hard to turn. Spies says they turn like a truck.

Short version. Great tires, great riders, great brakes. Must get tires HOT. This requires big balls braking skills. IIRC leg out braking and Bridgestones are synonymous. Nobody used leg out braking before Stones. So basically the best riders in the world can get the tires hot enough to work well.

Turn like a truck? Rear in the air? What are you talking about? Aside from neither of these things being true, they don't even make sense. Why spend millions to develop a bike that has the exact opposite of the properties that a race bike should have? Why build something that is worse than your production bike?

Also, the leg out braking thing has nothing to do with how easy or hard it is to brake. Rossi just started doing it and everyone followed suit. It's a style thing not a function thing.

 

[Sane_Man]

Real answer?

Magnets.

 

[JO EBRMC]

Real answer?

Magnets.

Bingo!

 

[DaveT319]

Also, the leg out braking thing has nothing to do with how easy or hard it is to brake. Rossi just started doing it and everyone followed suit. It's a style thing not a function thing.

I thought it had to do with balance under heavy braking?

 

[JO EBRMC]

I thought it had to do with balance under heavy braking?

Rossi has said he started doing it just to play around and it sometimes "feels" better but doesn't offer any advantage. The telemetry says the same.

 

[afm199]

Turn like a truck? Rear in the air? What are you talking about? Aside from neither of these things being true, they don't even make sense. Why spend millions to develop a bike that has the exact opposite of the properties that a race bike should have? Why build something that is worse than your production bike?

Also, the leg out braking thing has nothing to do with how easy or hard it is to brake. Rossi just started doing it and everyone followed suit. It's a style thing not a function thing.

See Ben Spies interview in Road racing world this month, read it, and get back to me. He says the bikes are MUCH harder to ride than WSB, the 4" front rim and long wheel base make it turn like a truck. That's Ben Spies, not me.

Second, this generation of GP bikes are ridden superhard on the brakes with the rear tire off the ground on hard braking constantly. Do you actually watch the races? This is a new style as is leg out, and NOBODY wastes time with style at that level unless it has FUNCTION, there is no advantage in wasting energy. Why do you think it happens so much? To look good?

Further, they push the wheelbase as LONG as possible to minimize wheelies, which engages Traction Control and slows the bike. Long wheelbase, wider front rim equals bike that wants to go in straight line and is ridden hard on the brakes to get GEOMETRY enough to turn it.

Seriously, read the interview.

Last, MotoGP has not been a platform for production bikes ever. NASA was not a platform for anything but NASA but the technical output was still a huge bonus. Nobody is building production bikes based on MotoGP bikes.

 

[clutchslip]

See Ben Spies interview in Road racing world, read it, and get back to me. He says the bikes are MUCH harder to ride than WSB, the 4" front rim and long wheel base make it turn like a truck. That's Ben Spies, not me.

Second, this generation of GP bikes are ridden superhard on the brakes with the rear tire off the ground on hard braking constantly. Do you actually watch the races? This is a new style as is leg out, and NOBODY wastes time with style at that level unless it has FUNCTION, there is no advantage in wasting energy. Why do you think it happens so much? To look good?

Better stability at high corner speed, but you know that. Stoner seems to whip those trucks around pretty good.

I thought you were suppose to squeeze the tank under braking, no? Saw that in Racer's Corner once.

 

[afm199]

Better stability at high corner speed, but you know that. Stoner seems to whip those trucks around pretty good.

I thought you were suppose to squeeze the tank under braking, no? Saw that in Racer's Corner once.

Absolutely. There are at least six guys in the world who can ride those bikes fast...............................

 

[TTTom]

You're not comparing lap times of GP bikes after they ditched qualifiers, are you?

Sure, why not?

The whole point on the B-stone tires is that if you can push them hard enough to get them up to temperature they offer the stick of a qualifying tire yet can last the whole race.

 

[sidewazzz]

Rossi has said he started doing it just to play around and it sometimes "feels" better but doesn't offer any advantage. The telemetry says the same.

He and others like Stoner have said it helps them brake deeper, while keeping the bike stable/ balanced.



Not a mistake.

 

[afm199]

That picture is a perfect example of the place that MotoGP tech and tire tech has come to. The front runners are not only braking rear wheel in the air on any entry corner, they are turning in/backing in with the wheel in the air. It's now what you have to do to win at MotoGP, and is not a style you saw ten years ago.

 

[kevin 714]

ernie theyve been doing that since the inception of 990. go back and look at 2002 highlights where rossi was doing that all the time. thats EXACTLY the style of 10 years ago

its not that the wheel base is long as much as ther swingarm is crazy long. they need a short wheel base for turning but a long ass swingarm for exactly what you said.