LongGoneJohn
Gone
How does this affect Feel Like a Pro though!??!?!?!
....and Shawnery!
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Rain racing?
- Thread starter rob linders
- Start date
....and Shawnery!
LongGoneJohn
Gone
Oh I realize that. I just think the AFM could better use money it already has coming in -- in the form of practice and first entry -- and keep that for a rainy-day fund to protect the club in case they have another total loss.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that I can sign up for 5 classes and not show up and pay nothing, but that doesn't seem right. The first class and practice -- or whatever is needed based on statistics on "no shows," to help protect the club.
Actually it may be cheaper to race in rain than dry. You not spending extra $400, you just buying different tire. If it rains all weekend you don't buy dry tire. I used to race on street tire in rain, you can't wear them out in rain
So far it worked. Do you have enough money in club to afford another year like it? Don't even have to be next year, it can be 3 years from now. Don't think afm is making enough this days with economy to build funds for it. I don't know, ask your leaders.
LongGoneJohn
Gone
I don't think they do, that's why they're looking at ways to pocket more money for people who register but don't actually show up and race. As they should.
The reality of it is it's no skin off my teeth either way, so long as a good decision is made that can keep the club solvent. I won't be racing in the rain, but I also won't bitch and moan when they do race in the rain and points get given out. Afterall, it was my choice to not race....
Plus, the bottom line reality of this whole thing is next year (2012) may be the only year that I can truly afford an entire season anyhow. After that, I'm likely to be a fuckin' sandbagger who shows up now and then. Damn real life and government work not making me enough monies. HAHAHHAHA
Few times I decided to skip race I entered (wera), did not ask for money back. They got my entry fee. It was my decision not to show up on grid.
LongGoneJohn
Gone
intortus
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How does this affect Feel Like a Pro though!??!?!?!
A few if us picked up some wets when we were up in Portland in September.
It is if you on grid already. AFM has that rule, it is $20 if you don't show up on grid.
It used to be you don't grid you don't get charged. That policy changed.
Times change and rules and polices change, it is normal. Maybe it is time to change rain policy
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- Walnut Creek
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It is if you on grid already. AFM has that rule, it is $20 if you don't show up on grid.
It used to be you don't grid you don't get charged. That policy changed.
Times change and rules and polices change, it is normal. Maybe it is time to change rain policy
We have changed the rain policy. We're ahead of this entire conversation by strategically updating the fee policy to address rain outs and canceled race entries. This is reflected in the September 14th BOD minutes.
Cool. I will not see those until somebody post it here on barf, so disregard anything I said.
machete
black out
You can simply walk over to the ladies at registration and donate your entry fees when you feel the AFM could use them. You don't need a rule change to do that. just saying.
dude, where are you getting these "numbers"? where are the insurance cost numbers per track (TH, BW)? (for the increase related to racing in the rain)
please post up these new and shockingly high insurance prices that the AFM would have to pay if it wanted to race in the rain.
How much more per track will the insurance increase? how much specifically over what we already pay? 10k 20k, 5k, 1k, nothing? How much more does WERA pay for racing in the rain with their insurance carrier? I'm curious.
LongGoneJohn
Gone
Oh I have no idea! As I said, those were just ideas and someone would have to look at the numbers. I don't have them.
rob linders
Active member
Sure, look economy over last 20 years and it is not that bad as last 3 years show.
By your statistics I should have a lot more money now
Just got up and started catching up and haven't read past this yet. We went from selling snowmobiles in the bay area to dirtbike tires at Thunderhill.
But.......
THIS HAS TO BE THE BEST POINT IN THE ENTIRE THREAD!!!!
I was afraid I would wake up the rest of the family when I read this one.rob linders
Active member
Well, I haven't been around 20 years at AFM to know if you are giving accurate stats. I can say that (2 of 8) 25% of the races this year had races not run because of rain. Maybe the climate is changing, who knows, looks like Willow Springs will have two rain races this year. If you use your three years and out average, and it never rains again, then I have an 8% (2 of 24) chance of using my rains. Well guess what, I've run old rains and they still work, so if I get out of racing in 3 years I can just sell them to the next guy.
Once again, if it is financial, spec hard tires like they do in kart racing and get those tires to last a bit longer and all the racers can save a bunch of money. Oh....I'm guessing you wouldn't like that idea?
Hey Michelin Man,
Here is what I said. You interpeted it differently than what I said. They had a rain race earlier in the year, and if it rains this weekend like forecast, it looks like they will have two rain races for the year. Hmmmmm same amount AFM would have had if they allowed us to grid up at Buttonwillow or at Thunderhill.
Remember at Buttonwillow we didn't get a complete day in. Practice was cut short after a couple of sprinkles, as I recall. Then we sat around for awhile and, Barbara, [I think that is her name], announced no more practice straight to some racing. So only a few classes were run that weekend.
I know makeup races were run at other events, but they conflicted with WERA rounds, if I remember correctly, so that was lost opportunity for both the club and for us.
afmotorsports
New member
I will bet you that there is absolutely no increased insurance costs for racing in the rain because there is no conclusive data that there's any additional risk to the insurance company. I deal with insurance underwriters on a daily basis and the only time rates go up is when there is additional risk of loss. Your lovely fly-in race director is the AFM's 'insurance liason' and she bs'ed the membership for years and years that we couldn't race on Saturdays 'due to insurance costs'... and that turned out to be complete bs when we introduced Clubman and the other Saturday races because the insurance rates didn't change at all.
I can't say that I'm in favor of changing the AFM's rain policy but at the same time it's unfair to shoot down the idea using false pretenses like 'higher insurance costs'.
afmotorsports
New member
Ok punkin', I will try to say it one more time and maybe this time it will sink in:
Buttonwillow was NOT raceable!
It was raining buckets and there was waaay too much standing water on the track surface to allow for motorcycle racing. With such a massive downpour any 2-wheeled vehicle would hydroplane and crash, even on rain tires. There was absolutely no time to run all the races on Saturday afternoon either. I was actually a bit surprised that there wasn't much of a backlash from the membership when the AFM changed some of the races from Sunday to Saturday during that lunchtime meeting since there are always a few riders who do Friday practice, skip the Saturday practice (leave the track) and then come back to race on Sunday... and they wouldn't have known that the club had moved their race to Saturday.
Any way you slice it, the AFM event at Buttonwillow in March would NOT be affected by a different rain policy because it was not raceable!! The only event that could've been affected by a different AFM policy was Thunderhill.
afmotorsports
New member
Sure, look economy over last 20 years and it is not that bad as last 3 years show.
By your statistics I should have a lot more money now
I give up, it's like beating my head against a rock. Call Foreman and maybe he can explain statistcs, probabilities and forecasting in a way that you can understand.
If you don't look at the data in a statistically significant way, I suppose the day after the 9/11 disaster you would expect hijacked planes to fly into buildings on a daily basis... and after having ONE AFM race event in 20+ years that could've been raced with a different rain policy, now all of a sudden we should expect to have one rain race every year???
You're giving me a headache, Z-man!rob linders
Active member
You sure do enjoy the name calling. We aren't in third grade here.
However you are entirely wrong about Saturday. We lost time, I can't remember how much, when 2-3 sprinkles hit the ground and we all had to stand around and wait to see what AFM would do. OBVIOUSLY, there wasn't much rain or we wouldn't have regrouped and decided to run the races later in the afternoon.
I honestly didn't check out how the track was on Sunday, even though I waited around for awhile. I already knew if a couple sprinkles hit the ground Saturday, we would get shut down Sunday since there was no way an actual wet surface would be raced on.
I see you didn't address the part where you called me a goof because you read what I wrote wrong.
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afmotorsports
New member
Are you for real? "Punkin" is a term of endearment. Would you prefer "cupcake", "sunshine" or "buttercup" instead??
Alternatively, we could also switch it up to "Nancy", "Sally" or the ever-popular "Princess". You clearly don't get it and continue to go on and on about the AFM rain policy trying to make it this big issue when in reality it's just not. During the March-October timeframe it very rarely rains at Buttonwillow and Thunderhill so the current AFM policy actually makes sense. WSMC races year-round and they routinely encounter rain in the high desert so their policy makes sense for them. Feel free to stay down there if you're so wound up about the AFM's rain policy. This 'debate' is really starting to border on the absurd...