Retail giants are blaming their lower profits on theft...

[budman]

These kids never got parented properly, and society has to do this now.

Pretty much.

 

[bpw]

LOL, I have been saying that for years and people just get mad at me, but maybe it is because I have spent over a decade in the trenches actually working on solving the problems so it makes it easier for me to see. Due to multiple socioeconomic system failures as a result of bad policy decisions, the U.S. is simply producing a much shittier class of citizen than it was 100, or even 60 years ago.

And what makes it so hard is solving those problems takes a generation or two, but political will lasts about a week before everyone gets distracted. "I have a great plan, that will make everything better, but I need you to fund me for 40 years before we have results" is a really hard sell. The recent research coming out about what being raised in high stress environments does to the brain just makes the problem seem even more intractable in our political climate.


I spent some time in New Zealand, and one thing that really stuck with me was a girl I knew who had a kid when she was 17 or so. With basically no effort from her the govt just started mailing her stuff she would need to raise the kid and made sure she was getting the support to raise it well. They figured it was a hell of a lot cheaper to buy some formula and parenting classes than deal with a fucked up kid 20 years in the future.

 

[Eldritch]

Cleaning up messes isn't punishment, per se. It's corrective behavior.

If your parents yelled at you when you ran out into the street without looking, were they punishing you?

These kids never got parented properly, and society has to do this now. Nobody likes being parented. Nor should we bribe people to behave properly.

Parenting is only part of the situation. It takes a village, etc.

And what makes it so hard is solving those problems takes a generation or two, but political will lasts about a week before everyone gets distracted. "I have a great plan, that will make everything better, but I need you to fund me for 40 years before we have results" is a really hard sell. The recent research coming out about what being raised in high stress environments does to the brain just makes the problem seem even more intractable in our political climate.

I spent some time in New Zealand, and one thing that really stuck with me was a girl I knew who had a kid when she was 17 or so. With basically no effort from her the govt just started mailing her stuff she would need to raise the kid and made sure she was getting the support to raise it well. They figured it was a hell of a lot cheaper to buy some formula and parenting classes than deal with a fucked up kid 20 years in the future.

Indeed, some may even suggest well-nigh impossible. As we continue to produce generations of garbage people more fit for the compost pile than to compete on a global economic stage, one would typically continue to lose faith in the ability of said generations to show the wisdom needed to invest in that better future.

Typically only a horrifying and generation defining period of catastrophic hardship and suffering would cause a society to shift to the ideals of investing not in themselves, but for a better tomorrow.

My best bet currently is in WWIII creating that event.

 

[Ant]

Amazing how the Scandinavian prison model does a lot better at rehabilitation which the US system doesn't offer.

Gotta look at the big picture, US prisoners are cut from an entirely different cloth than those in Scandinavian countries.

 

[Johndicezx9]

I don't know, Anders Behring Breivik could've easily been cut from the same cloth as a few US psychos....

 

[Kornholio]

Prison is always solution.

If that was the case, recidivism wouldn't be the problem it is in America. Nearly half of people released from prison end up right back in the system again within a year. The United States has one of the worst recidivism rates in the world. We don't treat the problem. We think warehousing people will solve all of our problems. Well, that and the greed of the correctional system in this country in the first place, but that's a topic for another thread.

Haven't seen that movie. That's fucking great.

Wow, really?! It's a classic!

 

[TWF]

If that was the case, recidivism wouldn't be the problem it is in America. Nearly half of people released from prison end up right back in the system again within a year. The United States has one of the worst recidivism rates in the world. We don't treat the problem. We think warehousing people will solve all of our problems. Well, that and the greed of the correctional system in this country in the first place, but that's a topic for another thread.

I didn't say or meant to say it will solve problem. It is solution that has to be used. You do crime you do time.
This country and its system is not set up to treat problems, only to exploit them. This system also creates a lot of this problems.

 

[Climber]

Yes, Climber is a good and long standing member of the community and for general purposes seems like a good dude. However, in this case he is supposing a conspiracy that I think is just nonsense, and as is often my wont, am inclined to call it out as such.

In this particular case, his implication is that The Dollar Tree, the specific publicly traded organization in the article, may be directing in a conspiracy fabricating shrinkage statistics in order to protect the value of Executive Bonuses.

As a person who is experienced and familiar with such payment structures you understand that they are not always directly dependent on Net or Gross Profits alone as he stated. Sometimes they are merely calendar dates as retention bonuses, or more commonly in my experience based on other metrics/performance goals, particularly Market Cap value in a public organization like DLTR.

Without even getting into the concern about SEC investigation, you would still have to sell your conspiracy internally to the Board, which would start a lot of hard conversations about Loss Prevention and what is being done that would probably be more expensive/ troubling than the reduced sales or whatever it is that you were trying to cover up.

So you can see how my intention is to punt that non-sense into the realm of the, "9/11 Was an Inside Job" Mob.

I think it is probably safe to move on from the thing though. Everyone seems to have accepted the idea was silly and moved on to the more interesting topic of shrinkage, loss prevention, governance, and what can be done about what appears to be a post COVID Global trend as informed by my article about trends in Singapore.

Please go back a re-read my original post.

I was asking a question, not stating it as a fact.

 

[Abacinator]

Political discussion is political

 

[Ant]

I don't know, Anders Behring Breivik could've easily been cut from the same cloth as a few US psychos....

Well sure there's psycho's everywhere but they don't fall under the 'to be rehabilitated' umbrella.

As far as serial killers go pound for pound we have some of the best

 

[littlebeast]

I don't know, Anders Behring Breivik could've easily been cut from the same cloth as a few US psychos....

yeah - prevalence-wise, he's more of an outlier in his own country than our own psychos are. but sheer volume-wise, we win, hands down.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-the-most-serial-killers

 

[littlebeast]

Gotta look at the big picture, US prisoners are cut from an entirely different cloth than those in Scandinavian countries.

don't know if you still remember, but you and i share a lot of the same experience. and yeah - incredible array of cultural differences we've both been exposed to. don't know about you, but i was almost completely unaware going in. awesome education on my part. lotta shit, but also a lot of amazing insight.

 

[Ant]

don't know if you still remember, but you and i share a lot of the same experience. and yeah - incredible array of cultural differences we've both been exposed to. don't know about you, but i was almost completely unaware going in. awesome education on my part. lotta shit, but also a lot of amazing insight.

While I got to experience a lot of treasures as in elders from other cultures I now constantly kick myself in the ass for not spending more time listening. Youth can make you a dumbfuck

 

[GAJ]

Interesting angle I had not read before but it makes sense.

Target last week said it was bracing to lose half a billion dollars this year because of rising theft.

“We’re in a period where bad behavior is legitimized, even normalized,” said Cohen.

“Gun violence has exploded, bad behavior among citizenry has exploded, civil discord is high and Americans are very polarized.”

Retail crime, he said, is an unfortunate consequence of this as well.

According to the National Retail Federation, the industry’s biggest trade group, large-scale store theft is becoming a bigger part of annual retail “shrink,” a term that refers to merchandise that goes missing due to theft, fraud, damage and other reasons.

The NRF said total annual shrink reached $94.5 billion in 2021, up from $90.8 billion from 2020. Nearly half was attributed to large-scale theft of products. The group said retailers on average saw a 26.5% increase in this type of theft over the previous year.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/busi...iQmGpdSO1qy/xPLe+VLYZPbdY&bt_ts=1693307510860

 

[afm199]

Interesting angle I had not read before but it makes sense.



https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/busi...iQmGpdSO1qy/xPLe+VLYZPbdY&bt_ts=1693307510860

When you live in a society that lowers its standards, you get lower standard behavior, sadly.

This isn't an outlier, the way we are headed, it's the future of the country.

 

[Climber]

When people lose hope in the country providing a fair and level playing field, they switch over to a mode of 'getting theirs' because that's what they see all of the people at the top doing. How can you fault them when they're expected to keep getting fucked over to a greater and greater degree while watching people who have everything getting even more?

Yeah, the problem has a very definite socio economics roots, the people at the bottom are increasingly deciding to not just grin and bear it.

 

[budman]

When you live in a society that lowers its standards, you get lower standard behavior, sadly.

This isn't an outlier, the way we are headed, it's the future of the country.

Thanks for the article GAJ.
It highlights that the state of the economy is forcing the standards down. It is not a choice to lower, rather to accept them being lowered and for many of us it is not something that is acceptable so it will continue to fracture society further.

The reactive "get tough" on crime stance is valid, but it will be painful as well.

We saw a bunch of Government support during the pandemic and that cannot be a standard to eliminate the problem being discussed (lower crime). A lot of the crime is established and breaking that mold will be tough in my mind.

 

[afm199]

Yup!

 

[bpw]

When you live in a society that lowers its standards, you get lower standard behavior, sadly.

This isn't an outlier, the way we are headed, it's the future of the country.

Let's not forget, the largest crime spike in modern American history was right as the boomers hit prime crime committing age. So lets not allow nostagia to convince us that the past was some golden era of high standards and raising children well.

Crime rates are still way below what they were in the 70-80s.

When people lose hope in the country providing a fair and level playing field, they switch over to a mode of 'getting theirs' because that's what they see all of the people at the top doing. How can you fault them when they're expected to keep getting fucked over to a greater and greater degree while watching people who have everything getting even more?

Yeah, the problem has a very definite socio economics roots, the people at the bottom are increasingly deciding to not just grin and bear it.

And this, massive differences between the wealthy and the masses tends to lead to revolution. I don't think any society can survive massive wealth disparity indefinetly.

 

[afm199]

Coalition for a Better Oakland
Jack Saunders · 11h ·
OAKLAND ESTUARY PROWLED BY PIRATES
— Vigilantes Keep Watch
In recent weeks, the Oakland Estuary has morphed from an innocuous playground for water sports into what the local boating community describes as a semi-lawless stretch roamed by marauding thieves and patrolled by vigilantes.
It’s a drama more suited for the high seas than the placid, 800-foot-wide channel separating Oakland and Alameda. Yet according to those who live and own boats in the area, the situation has escalated into a true crisis.
On August 16, half the boats at the Alameda Community Sailing Center, a sailing nonprofit for kids, were taken in the night. At the Marina Village Yacht Club, residents say they have been threatened by “pirates” scouting out the docks. The Encinal Yacht Club, Jack London Square Marina and the Outboard Motor Shop have all been victimized. In total, over a dozen small boats and dinghies have been stolen in the past three weeks.
The map shows the locations in the Oakland Estuary, primarily between Oakland and Alameda, where small boats and dinghies have been stolen in recent weeks.“Piracy is the only way I can think to describe it,” local boat owner Jonathan Delong said during a public meeting of the Bay Conservation and Development Commission on Wednesday. “In some cases, it’s hand-to-hand combat.”
According to some, multiple boats are now being stolen every night, often stripped of their motors and then sunk in the estuary to avoid detection.
Members of the boating community have described the situation as “insanity,” “flabbergasting” and “the single greatest threat to the long-term health of the San Francisco Bay.”
In response, some boat owners have gone out and retrieved their stolen property. In their view, if they don’t, no one else will.
Brian Gorman, one of the owners of the Outboard Motor Shop in Oakland, said thieves tried to steal a $300,000 boat from its docks, and he’s now considering carrying a firearm.
Wendell Stewart, a boater and homeowner in Alameda, had his boat stolen off the docks at Grand Marina just over a week ago. His friends were able to find the boat floating in the estuary and recovered it within a day. Wendell wasn’t there for the mission — luckily for the pirates.
“I’m 72, but I still remember the army teaching me to kill a person with my thumbs,” Stewart said.
Observers worry that it’s only a matter of time before a conflict escalates and someone gets hurt because strangely, the identity of the crime spree culprits doesn’t seem to be under debate — all point their finger to the “anchor-outs” living in the Oakland Estuary.
Anchor-outs is a catch-all term for people living rent-free in public waterways across the Bay Area. Although not technically legal, anchor-out communities have been a fixture in the region for years — most notably Richardson Bay, which has a large houseboat community that authorities are working to remove. Anchor-outs don’t pay to dock at the marina and often live in old or failing boats.
According to Brock de Lappe, a former harbormaster and estuary advocate, anchor-out communities are made possible by boat owners abandoning end-of-life vessels at marinas, which then sell them for as little as $50.
Historically, the estuary has not hosted as many anchor-outs as Richardson Bay. Today, there are about 20 people living in boats in the estuary — typically in vessels that are in various states of disrepair.
Andrew Haid, an anchor-out who stays not far from Union Point Park, is currently living in a sailboat with a broken rudder and serious mechanical issues. Haid used to live on the street, but now he’s a man of the water. He’s lived in the estuary for over 10 years, watching the wildlife and happenings on Coast Guard island.
In Haid’s view, the estuary is like the Wild West. He’s stolen and been stolen from. In his sailboat, he keeps a small cigar case full of diamonds and jewels that he has collected over the years, like a true pirate. When asked if he felt any laws applied, he unearthed a machete from inside the cabin of his boat.
“This is the law around here,” Haid said.
Haid, who receives welfare and disability payments, said he has been trying to find a slip in a marina for years. Without that for protection, he’s forced to stay on his boat essentially 24/7. If he leaves, he’s not sure what will still be there when he comes back.
“If I could leave, I could try to find housing, try to get organized,” Haid said. “But I’ve been targeted so many times now.”
If the estuary has fallen into Wild West-style lawlessness, then Kaleo Albino, lead marine patrol officer for the Oakland Police Department, is the Lone Ranger.
Albino is the only officer in the Oakland Police Department tasked with enforcing the law on the estuary. In his estimation, the current crime spree can be blamed on just two people. Albino said they are relatively new to the waterway, have gotten away with one or two thefts, and became emboldened.
Albino said he would like to make an arrest, but it’s a challenging undertaking. A fully staffed port police force, he said, would have upwards of half a dozen officers. The Alameda Police Department has a marine unit, but its officers also have other full-time beats. The Coast Guard chips in, but its overall mission is national security. Although he understands why boat owners might go out on vigilante-style missions to retrieve their stolen vessels, it doesn’t always help.
The main reason I haven’t gotten these guys in custody is that the victims of these boat thefts are not necessarily coming forward,” Albino said. “They’re going to grab their boats on their own and then tell me afterwards. It doesn’t give me a clean case.”
But Albino and others recognize that the concerns posed by anchor-outs also won’t be resolved by a single arrest. Or even two. Beyond the thefts, critics of the anchor-outs say they dispose of their waste in the water, are often improperly anchored and become pinballs in the estuary during storms. When the boats sink, they become extremely expensive to remove, and they can pose a navigation hazard. In Albino’s view, the problem is worse than it has ever been.
Last year, the state conservation commission, tasked with the protection of the Bay, ordered the city of Oakland to remove anchor-outs and shoreline encampments by the end of February 2023. That deadline was not met.
In recent months, however, Oakland has passed new ordinances that address nuisance vessels and established an official 12-hour policy for anchoring in the estuary. Albino has applied for $200,000 in grant funding to dispose of derelict boats.
There’s also a new process by which to settle disputes between the city and those who have their boats impounded. In 2019, the city of Oakland was sued after removing and crushing boats that people had been living on in the estuary. The lawsuit was ultimately settled for $280,000.
De Lappe, the former harbormaster, the city and many others in the boating community believe there is no room for anchor-outs on the estuary, period. If Albino’s grant funding comes through, people like Haid could wake up one morning with a 30-day removal notice.
In the meantime, the situation in the estuary is a microcosm of many problems the Bay Area faces more widely, including class issues, homelessness and crime. Although separated by only 800 feet, the chasm between these two different boating communities — yacht club members and people scraping out an existence on derelict vessels — could hardly be wider. — Mercury News