Retail giants are blaming their lower profits on theft...

[afm199]

In most cases, they still won't stay in there forever. So again, what do you suggest be done to actually fix the problem? Prison is not a longterm solution for lower-level violent offenders.

Sure is. Shitty one. But still a solution. Many violent young criminals discover the hard way that violence is not a solution.

And again, it is a solution. A really shitty one, but a solution. Oakland is trying multiple solutions, by the way. Restorative justice. In some ways a great idea, in some pretty horrible. I'm not saying locking people up is a good solution, it's a shitty one. But it does protect the vulnerable in society, and if that doesn't happen, we don't have a society anymore. I'll vote for locking them up in the interim. Come on over to Oakland and see what it's like.

 

[Kornholio]

It's not a real solution...it'll never pass muster in the system.

 

[bpw]

You all do realize California has a higher incarceration rate than just about anywhere on the planet that isn't another US state or a third world country right? And a lot of those US States with really high incarceration rates also have the highest crime rates.

We are "locking them up" so if you don't like how things are, you should probably be arguing against increasing incarceration rates.

 

[Holeshot]

Multiple small retail, large retail, and minority owned businesses are leaving.

The nightmare of collecting on inventory insurance for a small/ medium business is trouble enough to not want to rebuild and stay.

We've lost the plot in CA. The immediate temporary fix that won't happen is to allow people to protect their possessions and self with lethal force.

And how exactly will that solve the problem or address the issues causing it in the first place?

The fires need to be put out first, then address how they started, etc. We've lost control of many streets. In the 18th century, the sheriff deputized citizens to aid in fighting crime. That's a clear temporary solution (to me) as well as allowing citizens to protect their possessions and selves with deadly force. DA's chasing victims down on wobbler illegal responses will quell citizen empowerment, right?

Your choices are to effectively decriminalize theft/vandalism/trespassing/assault/etc., or put struggling people in super toxic environments.

The people struggling are law abiding victims. The others are victimizing law breakers, no matter their economic status.

In most cases, they still won't stay in there forever. So again, what do you suggest be done to actually fix the problem? Prison is not a longterm solution for lower-level violent offenders.

To fix things? Make jail sentences about skills education, graduations (parole) and work requirement to maintain freedom. I'd also opt for early parole only with weekday offsite jobs and nightly, non-work ours back in prison. Way too simplistic as an explanation and most of this does take place across the country already in some form or another.

 

[afm199]

It's not a real solution...it'll never pass muster in the system.

Huh? They are getting locked up. And in Oakland there's now a citizen rebound from every walk of life telling the city management to get their shit together or get removed. The Alameda County DA is now the subject of a recall attempt, as was the SF DA, Boudin, who was removed. The current DA is very soft on violent criminal behavior.

I think you're polarizing a problem by stating that poverty/lack of education, past history, etc. are crime harbingers, and thus the criminals aren't really responsible for the crime.

I don't give a shit about that. All of those harbingers are real, changes must be made, and I still want the violent locked up. It won't be long ( already happening in Oakland) before the citizenry are in armed revolt against the violent criminals.

 

[Blankpage]

Thanks for not reading anything I said previously regarding the fact that what you're asking for will never happen per the laws we have in this country.

You’re looking for a solution which you seemingly indicate isn’t currently in place. If the laws don’t lockup violent offenders longterm then that’s the solution, change the laws.

The current system of catch and release with zero punishment obviously doesn’t work.
Sure give them an education while locked up if they show any potential but lock them up first and figure out later who has potential and deserve another chance. But don’t be surprised if a lot are simply career criminals for whatever reason or cards they were dealt.

 

[bpw]

For a bit of perspective, its worth scrolling down to look at this graph on crime rate over time, shit's bad in Oakland right now, but only in comparison to the historically low crime rates the last few years and it seems fairly localized to Oakland vs a California problem. Of particular interest is SF being so different despite very similar policies towards low level crime.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/oakland-bay-area-rates-18259788.php

 

[afm199]

For a bit of perspective, its worth scrolling down to look at this graph on crime rate over time, shit's bad in Oakland right now, but only in comparison to the historically low crime rates the last few years and it seems fairly localized to Oakland vs a California problem. Of particular interest is SF being so different despite very similar policies towards low level crime.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/oakland-bay-area-rates-18259788.php

Coming next to your cities!

 

[bpw]

Just found this on the Richmond City website, seems relevant to any conversation about crime rates. Sounds like not a huge effect, but still meaningful.

https://www.ci.richmond.ca.us/4010/Crime-Statistics-Reports

https://ucr.fbi.gov/nibrs/2014/resource-pages/effects_of_nibrs_on_crime_statistics_final.pdf

"Important Changes in Crime Statistics Reporting

For decades, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has collected national crime data from law enforcement agencies, including the Richmond Police Department.

Before 2021, California utilized the Summary Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) method, often referred to as “Part I & Part II Crimes,” to report crime statistics to the FBI. Effective January 1, 2021, the National Incident Based Reporting System (NIBRS) will replace UCR as the nationwide crime data reporting system. The implementation of NIBRS is expected to provide consistency throughout the U.S. and will bring improved detail and a more transparent approach to crime reporting for the public.

Effective January 1, 2023, the Crime Analysis Unit will begin utilizing the NIBRS data collection method for the City's Monthly Crime Stat Reports.
Comparing UCR to NIBRS
UCR NIBRS

Consists of monthly aggregate crime count for 8 Index crimes
Records one offense per incident as determined by the hierarchy rule
The hierarchy rule suppresses counts of lesser offenses in multiple-offense incidents
It does not distinguish between attempted and completed crimes
Collects weapon information for murder, robbery, and aggravated assault
Provides counts on arrests for the 8 Index crimes and 21 other offenses



NIBRS collects data about victims, known offenders, and relationships for offenses reported in 23 categories with 52 offenses. It also presents arrest data for those crimes, as well as 10 additional categories for which only arrest data is collected
Records each offense occurring in an incident
Distinguishes between attempted and completed crimes
Restructures the definition of assault
Collects weapon information for all violent offenses


With this transition, the perception may be that the City of Richmond's lower-level crime statistics have increased. This change in reporting is not expected to reflect an actual increase in crime, but rather a change in the way crimes will be reported. It is also expected that NIBRS will produce more detailed, accurate, and meaningful data because it also captures when and where crime takes place, what form it takes, and the characteristics of its victims and perpetrators. "

 

[afm199]

Funny thing. Nobody mentions that crime is reported less and less when the police don't show up when you do call. Calling 911 in Oakland is an exercise in futility, it can take a half hour or more to get a dispatcher, and then there aren't nearly enough cops to go to any but the most violent crimes. Home breakin? Good luck. If they have already left, the OPD will tell you to just file a report online. Ditto vehicle theft.

I have been the "victim" of several crimes in the last several years. I don't report them anymore. Somebody tagged my truck big time. Stole stuff from my front yard. Three physical incidents. No point in reporting them. Nobody does.

 

[Blankpage]

With this transition, the perception may be that the City of Richmond's lower-level crime statistics have increased. This change in reporting is not expected to reflect an actual increase in crime, but rather a change in the way crimes will be reported. It is also expected that NIBRS will produce more detailed, accurate, and meaningful data because it also captures when and where crime takes place, what form it takes, and the characteristics of its victims and perpetrators. "

So stores are closing because crime is down and not actually increasing as store owners perceive

 

[bpw]

So stores are closing because crime is down and not actually increasing as store owners perceive

No, crime is up in Oakland, as shown in pretty much every stat available, but, it's important to pay attention to data reporting and not be caught out by artifacts that don't effect reality.

Actually reading the data and how things are reported is incredibly helpful, as you would have noticed if you read that the changes from the new reporting system are in the single digits on average.

 

[Holeshot]

Funny thing. Nobody mentions that crime is reported less and less when the police don't show up when you do call. Calling 911 in Oakland is an exercise in futility, it can take a half hour or more to get a dispatcher, and then there aren't nearly enough cops to go to any but the most violent crimes. Home breakin? Good luck. If they have already left, the OPD will tell you to just file a report online. Ditto vehicle theft.

I have been the "victim" of several crimes in the last several years. I don't report them anymore. Somebody tagged my truck big time. Stole stuff from my front yard. Three physical incidents. No point in reporting them. Nobody does.

Damn dude...I know of a nice place in concord that'll be for sale soon...

 

[Kurosaki]

Oakland is probably an outlier here, but an outlier on the extreme side. We have stores closing daily here. Multiple small retail, large retail, and minority owned businesses are leaving. A couple weeks ago thieves hit FIVE stores in a row over the weekend, knocking down the doors with SUV's. A local liquor store had the same thing happen. Not a big chain, but one man store, they knocked down his store front with an SUV and stole liquor and cigarettes. Destroyed lots of structure and stayed there for well over a half hour loading multiple SUV's.

We see this weekly now. Small business is totally fucked here, and big business is leaving as well. Walmart closed a branch here several years ago due to slippage.

My local Safeway redid the entire checkout counter process, now to check out, all the checkout kiosks feed into a gated area, that has one exit, where a security guard stands watching at the door. I'm happy they did that if it keeps them in business.

At this point OPD can't even guarantee citizen security. We have multiple car jackings weekly, kidnapping, pimping of minors, strongarm robbery, and bizarre and dangerous driving behavior. It's a total shit show.

My mother's side of my family is from Oakland. This sounds like one of the reasons my uncle would tell me why he made the decision to tell Oakland "DUECES I'M OUT", 30+ years ago and moved to Hawaii with no specific plan on how to make it out there but figured it out.

 

[TWF]

In most cases, they still won't stay in there forever. So again, what do you suggest be done to actually fix the problem? Prison is not a longterm solution for lower-level violent offenders.

Prison is always solution. Also get rid of poverty and drugs and it will fix good part of it. Those two are biggest source of crime all around the world.

 

[bpw]

I have a hard time understanding why I would want to spend $100,000 to punish someone for stealing a $1,000. It might feel good, but I am worse off for it.

https://lao.ca.gov/policyareas/cj/6_cj_inmatecost

 

[Blankpage]

I have a hard time understanding why I would want to spend $100,000 to punish someone for stealing a $1,000. It might feel good, but I am worse off for it.

https://lao.ca.gov/policyareas/cj/6_cj_inmatecost

Those numbers are dirt cheap when you consider the cost of leaving that criminal out on the street to continue their crime spree habits.

What’s the cost to society in year when those criminals are allowed to continue:
- busting store windows
- shoplifting, looting, stealing and breaking into cars,
- cost of security to protect businesses homes streets and public transit
- increased driving costs when stores close down and customers now have to go further out of their way for daily shopping
- healthcare costs to victims of their violent crimes
- stress to anyone dealing with their BS

That criminal still needs healthcare whether locked up or on the outside so you can subtract that cost from your numbers also.

Beside simply feeling good Society is much better off with them locked up and not a daily burden to everyone’s lives.

;

 

[afm199]

I have a hard time understanding why I would want to spend $100,000 to punish someone for stealing a $1,000. It might feel good, but I am worse off for it.

https://lao.ca.gov/policyareas/cj/6_cj_inmatecost

I don't want to punish anyone for stealing $1,000. There are alternatives. I do want to lock up violent criminals to keep society safe.

I'd love to see $1000 criminals cleaning up graffiti, blight, and dumped trash for a month or two.

 

[GAJ]

Saw a video of last night of a forklift being stolen from an Oakland hardware store on their fourth visit there in the span of a few hours.

Crazy what's going on down there.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

A business should not have to fear defending themselves from theft because they might get sued by the thief.