ROLL CALL JULY 19th THILL ZZ

[Lazerus]

And thanks Shawn for reigning in the crazies on Sunday.

QUOTE]

Shawn's a great leader in that way. Wish I coulddah joined in the mayhem.

Those paddock pics look professional as hell. What kind of equipment are you shooting with corndog?

No more zz days until sept but I will be slightly less broke way before then Maybe I will have to try my hand in the endurance race just to get my fix

 

[poach]

Just a quick note to thank Shawn, both David's, Vik, Dan, Matt, and the rest of the ZoomZoom tribe for an outstanding event on Sunday. I'm seriously diggin' the whole Zoomista vibe you folks have going on. Extremely professional org, awesome race track, and the weather bill even got paid.


Thanks again,
Chris@TrackDaz

 

[Justin707]

We live to fight another day.

WELL SAID!

 

[ExplicitZX7R]

Yeah that was my buddy in group C. He was pretty pissed comin back to the pits. It was his first time riding Thill and he was telling me before the crash he kept coming into 5 too hot. and the crash time he went in too hot with a wide line and fixated on the right candy cane then went in. Hes all good though. Bike isnt that bad at all (visually)

Please pass along this message to your buddy. I was sitting under the canopy and watched him go over the curb and tumble through the dirt. He bounced rite up and seemed pissed off but not hurt. He stood by his bike for more then a few minutes before walking out of the impact zone. Only to walk rite back down the hill and get back into harms way. Get the F out of the impact zone until after the session! What could make crashing worse? getting run into be another rider who target fixated on you. The whole group I was pitting with could not believe the stupidity. Then to make it worse he tries to pick up his bike, finally does and then drops it down the hill. So many people do not listen in riders meeting when they tell you to get the F away from the bike if you crash and you are not hurt.

 

[Ratters]

Not to pile on, this is meant in the best way, but I saw him out there going into a lot of turns way too hot and then slowing way the hell down in the middle of the turn. Tell him to just work on his body position and lines and not hammer the throttle too much yet. He'll get a lot faster and safer doing that way.

I had to give the same advice to my buddy who came with me. I followed him and it scared the hell out of me. He was going way too fast but and way too much lean angle, he promised to slow it down and work on body positioning and lines the next day. Remember, slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

Just a quick note to thank Shawn, both David's, Vik, Dan, Matt, and the rest of the ZoomZoom tribe for an outstanding event on Sunday. I'm seriously diggin' the whole Zoomista vibe you folks have going on. Extremely professional org, awesome race track, and the weather bill even got paid.


Thanks again,
Chris@TrackDaz

The guys at Zoom Zoom are teh awesome, and I just love doing track days with them! I saw you at the rider's meeting, and had to smile- my very first track day was down at Buttonwillow, with your organization... Dustin's dad took good care of me and my vintage gixxer out there, and even though everything that could go wrong, DID (stupid u-haul trailer wiring killed my battery in my truck leaving us stranded on I5 on the drive down, boyfriend crashed 2nd time out and broke his leg... ), the guys at TrackDaz were great, and did a wonderful job of "hand-holding" a noob!

 

[Burke]

Burke,

Great meeting you Saturday. You're lines went from sketchy to sexy in less than a day - impressive. Next time, plan on staying for the BBQ and some lounge chair racing, and perhaps a day two! Looks like Thanksgiving is the next Thunderhill day - are we BBQing turkey?

Kef, thanks man, and thanks for riding in front of me and showing me lines to take. If it hadn't been for you and the other awesome instructors I probably would have run my bike off the track!

All I've been seeing when I close my eyes the last two days is track flying past me... gotta go back soon!

 

[Lazerus]

Kef, thanks man, and thanks for riding in front of me and showing me lines to take. If it hadn't been for you and the other awesome instructors I probably would have run my bike off the track!

All I've been seeing when I close my eyes the last two days is track flying past me... gotta go back soon!

He just put's his 848 on auto pilot, closes his eyes, and hangs on

 

[egrep]

That, alas was I. Thanks for your kind thoughts. The bike is a stock '98 Triumph Sprint Sport 885.

The sighting lap session was really fun and got me off the 'this track is too fast' fears I'd had. Then on the first open session I didn't take an instructor. I figured I'd run that one alone and then pick one up for the rest of the sessions. Bad Bad Bad. The session started fine, I was having fun and easily passed a rider outside of 3 after waiting patiently through 1 & 2. then 4 was a nice clear ride up into 5.

I was overconfident and under experienced however and didn't have turn 5 right in my mind yet. I wasn't going way too fast, but I was going too fast and didn't have a proper 'plan' for the turn. Bottom line, I fucked up. I went over a very technical and unfamiliar turn too hot and failed to flick the bike over hard enough at the crest, that put my 'line' right off the track over the hash marks. :sad There just wasn't any way I was going to get it leaned over in time (that hillside is pretty steep and long, likely a much better rider could have adjusted, not me ) So I stood it up and braked off what speed I had until I hit the hash then stood up just a teeny bit on the pegs and entered the dirt. I wasn't sure how I'd enter the track half way through 5a without hitting anyone but that wasn't likely going to be a concern. The slope of the hill is a bit much and though I kept off the brakes my front end immediately washed out and planted me solid on the right side. No sliding really, I took the brunt on my right rib cage. I didn't break anything but the bruising is a new form of hell. Just found out today there's a purple patch on the top of my right earlobe, seems to be from my eyeglass frames.

A key thing I've realized is that Race Tracks aren't public roads in many ways. One important way is many turns (like 5) are 'trick turns' and that's what the track is all about. Public highways usually have huge sight lines and no tricks, they are designed for the most part to be predictable and kind. Even where roads are 'tricky', the street pace accommodates this. So, I manage 250-300 twistie miles on mostly goat roads each weekend without incident in ~6K miles this year. I haven't had an 'oh shit' moment since early March.

I didn't do this without knowing there's a possible down side. I came out pretty damned well considering and managed to ride 4 more sessions before going home late Sunday night, despite my mind being fsck'd up and my ribs hurting in a whole new, delightful way. I was told I had good body positioning and had decent lines but I was just really really slow and that was just fine.

Z2 delivers tremendous value whether on the track or not. The counseling, crash analysis and emphatic support and encouragement they provided were phenomenal and helped me to get back on the track Sunday despite my reservations. Z2 have an extremely good attitude and their concern for rider safety and comfort are truly first rate.

My bike is now missing a right front Turn signal. Otherwise, the bar end isn't even scraped, brake lever untouched as well. Hell, even the mirror is fine!. The fairing is rashed and has a crack. Believe it or not, much of it rubbed out. A quick rattle can job ought to put the clutch cover right, no scratches really, just the sand scraped the paint off. Small scratches on muffler.

This was only my second track day, but my first was with Z2 at RFR in May. It was really sweet and I got up to 5 laps into every session of the day. On the last session I was already waxing nostalgic and thanking each corner for a wonderful ride. I'm working over in my mind what happened this weekend and hope to get the funk out. I'm signed up with Z2 for RFR in October and I'm putting together a game plan to make that work better.

I feel bad for the guy that went down on Turn 5 in the morning.

Was it a red bike? I saw that on my first moto, felt bad for him too. It didn't look bad, but it sucks to be out a buck ninety after ten minutes of riding. Doesn't everyone know to save crashing until the end of the day??

Yeah, it was the red twin... 500 maybe? Dual stock exhaust. Poor guy.

 

[corndog]

Great thoughts, great attitude. I don't think you need to work on much, you know what happened, and definitely seem smart enough to sort it out.

Happy Riding!

 

[egrep]

Team Second Chance Racing

Friends from BARF. Mostly new trackers that went on a wild journey together! Already plotting our return! Some of these guys are moving up to B on the next run! Thanks ZoomZoom for your excellent support and instruction! Endless Kudo's, everyone learned and advanced and had an exceptional experience!

More pictures tomorrow as I sort through them. Joe was kind enough to give advice and I got some nice shots of A and C group in turns 14 and 15. I also got some shots on turn 5 and through 5a/6 but that was a bit far away for anything really cool. It's amazing what an excellent job Joe does out there and it was really fun to learn the tip of the iceberg from him. I look forward to more such opportunities and will bring my 300mm lens next time.

Now the Vicodan calls me to sleep

 

[Lazerus]

I went over a very technical and unfamiliar turn too hot and failed to flick the bike over hard enough at the crest, that put my 'line' right off the track over the hash marks. :sad

This stood out to me a bit. That turn isn't so bad when you get the bike pointed BEFORE the crest. Getting her to steer while she is light is a hairy proposition, but if you get your steering done while still climbing, its easy to carry your already established lean with you over the crest. You may already be doing this, but just incase, based on the way you worded it, I figured I should throw it out there. Since it is blind, I set up on the far right curb. there are a few squares on the asphalt near that curb. i use the last square as my turn in, and the left curb as my "target" to set my trejectory. These exact points may not be the fastest, or the best for you. But setting up 2 points on the side of the hill that you can SEE helps you rest assured that you wont need to make any last second adjustments once the blind side opens up. Glad you and the bike are both relatively unharmed, and that the boys in blue didn't beat yah up too badly But from now on... I'm gonna have to call yah a squid

 

[Tank34]

I see now this will be a record breaking thread.

The infamous "July 19th track day" thread where the track marshals yell at turn 5 "STAY OFF THE SIDEWALK!"

 

[egrep]

Thank you very much. I'm going to go over this repeatedly and learn from it. I had some issues with that on the sighting laps, minor but I spoke aloud that 'steering over the top makes my bike feel really unsteady!' and after the crash (Vik rode my bike off turn 5 and around the track back to the paddock) He told me to take my bike straight to phil because the front end was 'riding like a chopper'. Phil then made an adjustment (compression?) which did help a lot. He wasn't sure how it crept, but said it was 'maybe the heat'. I've been going to phil since I started riding again this year. I firmly (pun!) believe in suspension as the finest bling for your bike. Unfortunately my bike has hard limits in that department.

I can dig what you're saying here. Same thing applies in turn 9 but it's a much easier turn. You still have to setup BEFORE the crest. Just in terms of setting up the turn with what you _can_ see, not how it unloads the front end over the top like 5@Thill. I found this much easier on turn 8A at RFR for some reason.

Sorry I've earned 'squid', good natured as that may be. I'm just at the very start of learning this stuff and got a great discount price on this lesson. Now my BARF flaggelation can drill the rest in for me. Thanks for the stellar advice.

I almost PM'd you to come out and take my Sunday for free, but it was C group and you're really needing to move up to A from B. There were enough carpet baggers in C to earn us all a well needed second riders meeting though so I decided to man up and get back out.

This stood out to me a bit. That turn isn't so bad when you get the bike pointed BEFORE the crest. Getting her to steer while she is light is a hairy proposition, but if you get your steering done while still climbing, its easy to carry your already established lean with you over the crest. You may already be doing this, but just incase, based on the way you worded it, I figured I should throw it out there. Since it is blind, I set up on the far right curb. there are a few squares on the asphalt near that curb. i use the last square as my turn in, and the left curb as my "target" to set my trejectory. These exact points may not be the fastest, or the best for you. But setting up 2 points on the side of the hill that you can SEE helps you rest assured that you wont need to make any last second adjustments once the blind side opens up. Glad you and the bike are both relatively unharmed, and that the boys in blue didn't beat yah up too badly But from now on... I'm gonna have to call yah a squid

 

[Lazerus]

Thank you very much. I'm going to go over this repeatedly and learn from it. I had some issues with that on the sighting laps, minor but I spoke aloud that 'steering over the top makes my bike feel really unsteady!' and after the crash (Vik rode my bike off turn 5 and around the track back to the paddock) He told me to take my bike straight to phil because the front end was 'riding like a chopper'. Phil then made an adjustment (compression?) which did help a lot. He wasn't sure how it crept, but said it was 'maybe the heat'. I've been going to phil since I started riding again this year. I firmly (pun!) believe in suspension as the finest bling for your bike. Unfortunately my bike has hard limits in that department.

I can dig what you're saying here. Same thing applies in turn 9 but it's a much easier turn. You still have to setup BEFORE the crest. I found this much easier on turn 8A at RFR for some reason.

Sorry I've earned 'squid', good natured as that may be.

I almost PM'd you to come out and take my Sunday for free, but it was C group and you're really needing to move up to A from B. There were enough carpet baggers in C to earn us all a well needed second riders meeting though so I decided to man up and get back out.

Thanks for thinking of me I was in worse physical condition than you, however, and would have been a rolling chicane in C group if I could stretch my pain threshold far enough to gear up.

Don't worry, my best friend is has newly aquired the squid title from me. i use much harsher terms when describing someone I dislike.

Good on Vik for giving you some valuable feedback. Sometimes it can be really hard to notice that you are riding around a problem when that is all you have ever known.

But 5 definately carries a bunch more bite than 8a at rfr, or 9. It has a more abrupt turn after the blind crest, and has a steeper drop. This narrows your window of clean entry down considerably. Having to try to get the bike pointed while cresting a rise is a PITA even when your suspension is dialed though.

Getting the steering input done before the unsettling crest helps this out tons. As you come over that crest, not only is the bike getting upset, but your body is becoming light also. If you are trying to give a steering input while you are still coming down from the roller coaster, odds are that you wont be able to give the input smoothly, plus the bikes suspension is transitioning from being extended, to compressing under its own falling weight. All of these variables make it pretty difficult to do everything correctly, consistantly.

On the other hand, if you set your lean angle while still climbing, all you have to do as you crest the hill is hang out and wait for the bike to reattatch itself to earth. AND if you are using a consistant pair of points to get yourself spit out facing the right direction on the track, what was once a scary turn becomes an amusement park ride

What helped me out a ton in doing this was

A) Asking some of the ZZ guys who I trust what their reference points were as they approach the hill

B) Asking shawn if I could walk the track early in the morning before the riders meeting

This gave me a close up look of the points that the ZZ guys had told me about. PLUS by being on foot, you can stand at the crest of the hill and look at both sides. This helps you visualize your line in, and how that will effect where you "land" on the other side. Being able to look at both sides at length definately helped my brain "soak up" the blind side. Really took the spookieness out of the turn. Now, the only variable is if a rider goes down on the blind side... but that's what the turn worker is for!

Check out where zoran (the guy in yellow) is getting the bike turned in this vid. He is turning on the uphill, and just carrying his lean over the crest.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=zoran&hl=en&sitesearch=#q=zoran thunderhill&hl=en&sitesearch=


Damn I rant. Fast guys, please feel free to pick this apart. I mean hell, I wasn't even THERE!

 

[runamok27]

Here is another method to get through turn 5. It's a video of David Stanton, who is so fast its like the guy is from another planet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2_PLr_5gjI&feature=related

I could be wrong but what it looks like he is doing is as he is going up the hill he is angling his bike towards the apex of turn 5 and just dipping the bike a little in order to make the turn (there is a small shelf there that stays flat longer). Since the bike is already angled to the left the turn is already half completed so you don't have to carry so much lean angle over the "falls", which is very comforting. This also sets you up for getting a great drive through turn 5a and into 6. Once I got this down it was amazing how many people I could pass on the outside coming down the hill because I was able to straighten out turn 5a so much I was hard on the gas way before the riders in front of me.

I tried it out and it works much better for me. The turn feels safer doing it this way and it is much more difficult to mess up and you get nowhere near the inside curbing of turn 5a, where all of the crashes occur.

Another important thing to remember about turn 5 is that it is a throw away turn (I have been told this many times by instructors). You should not try to take this turn fast, unless you are an extremely fast racer, which most of us are not, you are merely using it to setup for the subsequent turns.

I would highly recommend trying turn 5 both ways, slowly of course, and see which way works better for you.

 

[Lazerus]

Looks like Dave definately has the fast line through there. He is turning the bike to the left the least amount possible to not end up in the dirt on the right. He must be using Hacks

 

[TCK!]

Looks like Dave definately has the fast line through there. He is turning the bike to the left the least amount possible to not end up in the dirt on the right. He must be using Hacks

This weekend was my first time at T-Hill... on my first solo non-parade lap I took that same line as his... but not on purpose, and I pretty much had to clean my leathers after that session.

T-Hill is for sure a different bird, I look forward to taking a go at it again in a few weeks. Stupid T14, I felt so great on it all day, really bummed me out to lowside on that turn. Asking a bit too much from my skill and didn't have my sticky compound tires to pick up the slack when I ran out of talent. But power wheeling down the hill from T9 is a pretty crazy/intense feeling. arty

 

[runamok27]

Looks like Dave definately has the fast line through there. He is turning the bike to the left the least amount possible to not end up in the dirt on the right. He must be using Hacks

That's why I chose to try it out after seeing the video, it looks like the safest way through that turn and as it turns out it is also a very fast way through that turn. Some of the A group folks were doing it also as I was watching from the pit area and they were able to make some passes on the outside of turn 5a because they could get on the gas so much sooner and harder. Also, I was sick and tired of riding on the curbing when I blew that turn.

 

[fqzaxon]

Friends from BARF. Mostly new trackers that went on a wild journey together! Already plotting our return! Some of these guys are moving up to B on the next run! Thanks ZoomZoom for your excellent support and instruction! Endless Kudo's, everyone learned and advanced and had an exceptional experience!

Glad you're feeling better! When you do get those pictures ready, post them in Ariel (itosan)'s track experience thread in the moto photos... I think we should keep all of our pictures from the weekend with his posting..