• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

So, Dave Ramsey....on car buying....

Amen.

edit:
Well, I responded too fast. The part about the government needing to fix it; end the policy that allows reckless undersigning of unsecured loans, but forgiving the loans?

The subsidized loans were need based and limited in scope. The $5k annually didn't accrete to the $100k+ debts we hear so much about. Therefore I think they were the least abused, and contributed the least to overinflating the cost of education. The borrowers ought to pay them back.

The unsubsidized loans, whether federal or private, were abused. I agree the government loaded the gun, but the borrower pulled the trigger. Forgiving the loans fails to hold the borrower responsible. They should feel some pain. Even if it's paying back the loan for pennies on the dollar, there has to be something. Like when you settle any other type of loan in default.
 
Last edited:
quicksparks said:
Amen.

edit:
Well, I responded too fast. The part about the government needing to fix it...forgiving the loans...

The subsidized loans were need based and limited in scope. The $5k annually didn't accrete to the $100k+ debts we hear so much about. Therefore I think they were the least abused, and contributed the least to overinflating the cost of education. The borrowers ought to pay them back.

The unsubsidized loans, whether federal or private, were abused. I agree the government loaded the gun, but the borrower pulled the trigger. Forgiving the loans fails to hold the borrower responsible. They should feel some pain. Even if it's paying back the loan for pennies on the dollar, there has to be something. Like when you settle any other type of loan in default.
Click to expand...

At this point I'd be perfectly content to pay the balance of the loans that paid for school, helped me support my son and contribute to the household (while also working) if they'd just keep the zero interest thing going. I owe a bit, it is what it is. But the zero interest has been sweeeeet.
 
mean dad said:
I'm not quite disciplined enough to really maximize my finance's potential.
Click to expand...

Common advise from financial gurus is to set up an automatic investment. So after every paycheck X amount is transferred to your investment account and invested in a low cost, well diversified index fund like VTI.

You won't miss the the money, you dont have to pick stocks and you follow DCA (dollar cost average). You dont have to be that discipline.

Research has found that companies by default for new hires investing part of a employees pay check in a 401K account successful at helping people save.
 
quicksparks said:
Amen.

edit:
Well, I responded too fast. The part about the government needing to fix it; end the policy that allows reckless undersigning of unsecured loans, but forgiving the loans?

The subsidized loans were need based and limited in scope. The $5k annually didn't accrete to the $100k+ debts we hear so much about. Therefore I think they were the least abused, and contributed the least to overinflating the cost of education. The borrowers ought to pay them back.

The unsubsidized loans, whether federal or private, were abused. I agree the government loaded the gun, but the borrower pulled the trigger. Forgiving the loans fails to hold the borrower responsible. They should feel some pain. Even if it's paying back the loan for pennies on the dollar, there has to be something. Like when you settle any other type of loan in default.
Click to expand...

Then those who borrowed outside of their need reap benefits not bestowed on those who did the right thing.

To note: loans packages are stepped, meaning you borrow the max subsidized amount before you borrow unsubsidized. So those that took unsub loans ALSO took subsidized loans (it's not a binary function). That's why they're 100k in debt. They took the 57,5 and borrowed even more!

two wheel tramp said:
At this point I'd be perfectly content to pay the balance of the loans that paid for school, helped me support my son and contribute to the household (while also working) if they'd just keep the zero interest thing going. I owe a bit, it is what it is. But the zero interest has been sweeeeet.
Click to expand...

I would be ok with this too.
 
I actually don't think any of it should be forgiven. I was trying to sound pragmatic but I see your point about forgiving all of it to bestow the benefit on those who did the right thing. So what, people who already paid it back get a refund? Where do you draw the line?

Oh and how does $5k annually add up to $57.5k? A shit ton of doctors are having a hard time repaying their loans??!
 
Yakoo752 said:
Then those who borrowed outside of their need reap benefits not bestowed on those who did the right thing.

To note: loans packages are stepped, meaning you borrow the max subsidized amount before you borrow unsubsidized. So those that took unsub loans ALSO took subsidized loans (it's not a binary function). That's why they're 100k in debt. They took the 57,5 and borrowed even more!



I would be ok with this too.
Click to expand...
It would take years off my payment plan and save me thousands. That feels like forgiveness to me.
 
quicksparks said:
I actually don't think any of it should be forgiven. I was trying to sound pragmatic but I see your point about forgiving all of it to bestow the benefit on those who did the right thing. So what, people who already paid it back get a refund? Where do you draw the line?

Oh and how does $5k annually add up to $57.5k? A shit ton of doctors are having a hard time repaying their loans??!
Click to expand...

For sure, it's a good conversation.

It's tiered with how much you can draw subsidized and unsubsidized and college is not 4 years any longer. (That's another unseen increase in costs but I digress, that's on the student I suppose. Probably shouldn't have worked full time or something :dunno )

Funny you bring up Doctors... Part of their signing bonuses now are repayment for student loans and/or coverage of student loan interest while employed. So yeah, capitalism has come to realize that loan are a real problem.

Where do you draw the line?

I have $12,500 in student loans. I only took out this because it was 0 interest and the gov was talking about doing loan forgiveness. (I put it in the market and have made a solid return on it, the moment I begin to accrue interest in excess of what I make on it in a month, I will pay it off in full ;) ) My college was bought and paid for by the US Military. I chose to go into service instead of take out loans for my education. From a financial perspective, BAD idea. It, in theory, set me back 8 years (time served). Am I asking for that time back? No...

But, I am not talking about the benefit to an individual. I am looking at the overall economic impact. If you thought the housing market was a nasty bust, just wait for the the student loan defaults to occur.
 
mikev said:
but other people paid off their loans so you don't deserve help


or something
Click to expand...

:laughing

Honestly if I get mine paid off and then all is forgiven it would align just fine with my values. I'd rather see more people getting ahead. We ALL benefit from that.

/being a goddamn commune born hippie.
 
yeah, why would we want people to have more money available every month
 
Yakoo752 said:
It shocks me we are still having this discussion today, when the data is so fucking readily available it's silly

No millenial would be complaining today IF wages and tuition trended in line with inflation and economic growth.

BUT wages stagnated and tuition grew faster then economic growth

the disconnect here is insane
Click to expand...
Yup.

Though, to be clear, for my purposes, I don't just want the cost of college to align with what people can afford. I want public colleges to be completely free, possibly even coming with a modest stipend for living expenses, books, etc. This is as someone who went to a private college (which would not be free) and graduated with no student loans, IE: I don't directly benefit from this at all. We are simply better off as a country having a very well educated populace. People with college educations make more money, thus pay more taxes, are more likely to get and keep employment, thus less dependence on unemployment and other temporary safety nets, and they are more likely to be able to pursue a career that they actually like, which means they are probably happier. So it's a win-win-win.
quicksparks said:
So what you meant all along was that if you go to Stanford, work your connections, maybe it doesn’t even matter what your degree was in. And the engineer going to sjsu is a dumb dumb who just throws his resume into various piles. Got it.

Go to an affordable state school and be just as affable, glad hand everyone, and you could also get a very good result.
Click to expand...

No one said that the engineer at SJSU is a dumb dumb, they just don't have access to the same type of connections that the Stanford grad does, this is true no matter how smart and affable they are. It's a big club. The SJSU grad ain't in it. The Stanford grad at least has an invitation.
 
I don’t see this as a 1% thing or a supply side thing. I see forgiving student debt as a printing money thing.
 
quicksparks said:
I don’t see this as a 1% thing or a supply side thing. I see forgiving student debt as a printing money thing.
Click to expand...

How is it printing money? like 95% of student loan debt is owned by the government, not private entities, the government can just decide not to collect payments. Not a dollar need be printed to do this.
 
Yup, all those teacher’s salaries and building upkeep just got paid for with this mystical government cheese of which there is a limitless supply.
 
quicksparks said:
I think you have to make a lot of wrong decisions over a long course of time to end up destitute. That's what I mean.

I think a lot of people blindly walk right up to the edge, and when they realize where they ended up, they fail to realize how they got there, so of course to them, it seems like they've been on a tight-rope with no net all along.

Of course there are people in the tails of the distribution who never had a chance. And the government absolutely takes care of them at great expense.
Click to expand...
You truly have no clue. Do you only socialize within your narrow peer group? I am stunned at just how much you don't know but are confident about.

.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top